I shall be going to Sibiu tomorrow, on the train. It will take 27 hours (if I'm lucky). In honour of this extended rail travel I have just started a new blog which may be more long term than this blog on conversion. I have no idea if anyone is still reading this but I shall make one or two more posts here as news comes in on the conversion meeting.
What has been fascinating for me has been thinking about and writing about a topic I would not naturally think about or possibly even choose to avoid. It's been a good experience.
Friday, 31 August 2007
Thursday, 30 August 2007
A press release from the World Evangelical Alliance on the Toulouse meeting
Below is a press release from the World Evangelical Alliance on the meeting in Toulouse.
Those of you who attended the meeting will be interested to note that a transcripton the meeting will be available on the WEA website in the near future, so keep checking. I'll try to post the link when it comes out and that may well be the final post on this blog - we'll see. Articles keep on being posted on the meeting and on the subject.
I shall be launching a new blog in the next few days which will start from the Third European Ecumenical Assembly (known as EEA3 to insiders!) in Sibiu, Roumania. I'll be travelling there in a non-Internet equipped train so posting may be rather intermittent to begin with. I'll put up the link tomorrow.
"Towards an Ethical Approach to Conversion - Christian Witness in a Multi-religious World"
Consultation held in Toulouse, France, 9 - 12 August 2007
The World Evangelical Alliance, together with Pentecostals from the United States were invited by the World Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue (PCID), to participate in a consultation entitled "Towards an Ethical Approach to Conversion - Christian Witness in a Multi-religious World" held in Toulouse, France, 9 to 12 August 2007. Three delegates represented the WEA: Richard Howell from India, Thomas Schirrmacher from Germany and John Langlois from the UK.
Due to significant media coverage of this event we felt it was important to clarify for our membership our involvement in it.
The consultation was one of a series of three. The first was held in Italy last year between representatives of Christian churches and representatives of other faiths. This second consultation was a consultation solely between representatives of the Christian churches to provide input into the eventual Code. It was useful for evangelicals to have had input into the process. The draft code will now be prepared and then presented for discussion at the third and final consultation next year. Therefore no one has committed to any Code yet. It has not yet been drafted.
The consultation arises from allegations that have been leveled in recent years at Christians by members of other faiths that Christians are using unethical methods of conversion to Christianity. Amongst the allegations are that Christians seek to convert through education at Christian schools and medical work at Christian hospitals and clinics.
The participants at the consultation rejected all such allegations and maintained that help and compassion for the poor and needy, including medical and educational work, is intrinsic in the Gospel and cannot be compromised.
The participants declared that the spreading of the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ alone is the central core of the Gospel and all Christians have the right to assert the claims of the Gospel even if persecution ensues.
It was acknowledged by a number of delegates that in the past some Christians had fallen short of the principles set out in scripture but these were far and few between. Those opposed to the Gospel appeared to target the relatively few instances which fell short of acceptable.
Once the code has been drafted it will be reviewed by the WEA International Council, International Leadership Team, Theological Commission, Religious Liberty Commission and Mission Commission. After reflection by these WEA entities we will then determine if it is appropriate for us to adopt and recommend such a code to our members.
The WEA is pleased to stand united with all sections of the Christian church in maintaining our rights, and indeed our duty, to proclaim the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Churches in other traditions acknowledge that it is evangelicals who are bearing the brunt of persecution through their active evangelism, as a result of which the numbers of evangelical Christians are growing strongly in many countries. We are grateful to those of other Christian traditions who are standing with us to assert our God-ordained right to evangelise a needy world, which is lost without Christ.
A transcript of the Consultation will be available on the WEA website next week.
Those of you who attended the meeting will be interested to note that a transcripton the meeting will be available on the WEA website in the near future, so keep checking. I'll try to post the link when it comes out and that may well be the final post on this blog - we'll see. Articles keep on being posted on the meeting and on the subject.
I shall be launching a new blog in the next few days which will start from the Third European Ecumenical Assembly (known as EEA3 to insiders!) in Sibiu, Roumania. I'll be travelling there in a non-Internet equipped train so posting may be rather intermittent to begin with. I'll put up the link tomorrow.
"Towards an Ethical Approach to Conversion - Christian Witness in a Multi-religious World"
Consultation held in Toulouse, France, 9 - 12 August 2007
The World Evangelical Alliance, together with Pentecostals from the United States were invited by the World Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue (PCID), to participate in a consultation entitled "Towards an Ethical Approach to Conversion - Christian Witness in a Multi-religious World" held in Toulouse, France, 9 to 12 August 2007. Three delegates represented the WEA: Richard Howell from India, Thomas Schirrmacher from Germany and John Langlois from the UK.
Due to significant media coverage of this event we felt it was important to clarify for our membership our involvement in it.
The consultation was one of a series of three. The first was held in Italy last year between representatives of Christian churches and representatives of other faiths. This second consultation was a consultation solely between representatives of the Christian churches to provide input into the eventual Code. It was useful for evangelicals to have had input into the process. The draft code will now be prepared and then presented for discussion at the third and final consultation next year. Therefore no one has committed to any Code yet. It has not yet been drafted.
The consultation arises from allegations that have been leveled in recent years at Christians by members of other faiths that Christians are using unethical methods of conversion to Christianity. Amongst the allegations are that Christians seek to convert through education at Christian schools and medical work at Christian hospitals and clinics.
The participants at the consultation rejected all such allegations and maintained that help and compassion for the poor and needy, including medical and educational work, is intrinsic in the Gospel and cannot be compromised.
The participants declared that the spreading of the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ alone is the central core of the Gospel and all Christians have the right to assert the claims of the Gospel even if persecution ensues.
It was acknowledged by a number of delegates that in the past some Christians had fallen short of the principles set out in scripture but these were far and few between. Those opposed to the Gospel appeared to target the relatively few instances which fell short of acceptable.
Once the code has been drafted it will be reviewed by the WEA International Council, International Leadership Team, Theological Commission, Religious Liberty Commission and Mission Commission. After reflection by these WEA entities we will then determine if it is appropriate for us to adopt and recommend such a code to our members.
The WEA is pleased to stand united with all sections of the Christian church in maintaining our rights, and indeed our duty, to proclaim the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Churches in other traditions acknowledge that it is evangelicals who are bearing the brunt of persecution through their active evangelism, as a result of which the numbers of evangelical Christians are growing strongly in many countries. We are grateful to those of other Christian traditions who are standing with us to assert our God-ordained right to evangelise a needy world, which is lost without Christ.
A transcript of the Consultation will be available on the WEA website next week.
Monday, 27 August 2007
A further link and discussion line on conversion
From the Guardian comment is free section there is an intersting discussion from late July to read and maybe also contribute to.
Saturday, 25 August 2007
More news about conversion - from Norway, Egypt and India
On August 22 the Islamic Council of Norway and the Church of Norway Council on Ecumenical and International Relations presented a joint declaration on the freedom of religion and the right to conversion. You can read more about the declaration by clicking on the link.
While lying in the bath on Friday morning I listened to an interesting report from Egypt about conversions between Christianity and Islam. It included interviews with Dr William Hanna from the Coptic Church in Egypt. If you are quick you can also listen again to the report from Friday 24th August - it comes about 10 minutes in on the 6.30-7.00 slot
You can also read more about the case that triggered the report here.
Meanwhile P. Ninan Benjamin has just sent news that Justice K. T Thomas (a retired judge of the supreme court of India) will deliver this year’s Dr. Stanley Samartha memorial Lecture on October 4, 2007 at St. Mark’s Cathedral, 1, Mahatma Gandhi RoadBangalore. The lecture's tilte will be, "The Indian Consitution and the Freedom to Convert".
While lying in the bath on Friday morning I listened to an interesting report from Egypt about conversions between Christianity and Islam. It included interviews with Dr William Hanna from the Coptic Church in Egypt. If you are quick you can also listen again to the report from Friday 24th August - it comes about 10 minutes in on the 6.30-7.00 slot
You can also read more about the case that triggered the report here.
Meanwhile P. Ninan Benjamin has just sent news that Justice K. T Thomas (a retired judge of the supreme court of India) will deliver this year’s Dr. Stanley Samartha memorial Lecture on October 4, 2007 at St. Mark’s Cathedral, 1, Mahatma Gandhi RoadBangalore. The lecture's tilte will be, "The Indian Consitution and the Freedom to Convert".
The rhetoric of conversion
My colleague Theodore Gill sent me the content of this post about the rhetoric of conversion spilling over into politics in the US. Anyway Theo's email is the perfect opportunity for me to urge him to start a blog - he has a great eye for the quirky story and a very dry sense of humour. So thanks for this Theo.
"The Republican candidate for governor of Louisiana is a formerly Hindu convert to Roman Catholicism. And I mean convert! His Democratic opponents are calling attention to an article he wrote for a 1996 issue of the New Oxford Review, in which he argued:
'Post-Reformation history does not reflect the unity and harmony of the "one flock" instituted by Christ, but rather a scandalous series of divisions and new denominations, including some that can hardly be called Christian. Yet Christ would not have demanded unity without providing the necessary leadership to maintain it. The same Catholic Church which infallibly determined the canon of the Bible must be trusted to interpret her handiwork; the alternative is to trust individual Christians, burdened with, as Calvin termed it, their "utterly depraved" minds, to overcome their tendency to rationalize, their selfish desires, and other effects of original sin. The choice is between Catholicism's authoritative Magisterium and subjective interpretation which leads to anarchy and heresy.'
I've always suspected that Calvin was a little soft (or 'wet', as the British say) on the whole Magisterium thing...
The trouble is that the whole thing may backfire on the Democrats in Louisiana, which is the most Catholic state in the US. Also, the Democratic attack ads oversimplify, saying that the Republican believes that Protestants and other non-Catholics "are utterly depraved" - which is not what he wrote. (Whether he believes that is another question.) For more, see item 3 on the following web page:"
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/augustweb-only/134-41.0.html
"The Republican candidate for governor of Louisiana is a formerly Hindu convert to Roman Catholicism. And I mean convert! His Democratic opponents are calling attention to an article he wrote for a 1996 issue of the New Oxford Review, in which he argued:
'Post-Reformation history does not reflect the unity and harmony of the "one flock" instituted by Christ, but rather a scandalous series of divisions and new denominations, including some that can hardly be called Christian. Yet Christ would not have demanded unity without providing the necessary leadership to maintain it. The same Catholic Church which infallibly determined the canon of the Bible must be trusted to interpret her handiwork; the alternative is to trust individual Christians, burdened with, as Calvin termed it, their "utterly depraved" minds, to overcome their tendency to rationalize, their selfish desires, and other effects of original sin. The choice is between Catholicism's authoritative Magisterium and subjective interpretation which leads to anarchy and heresy.'
I've always suspected that Calvin was a little soft (or 'wet', as the British say) on the whole Magisterium thing...
The trouble is that the whole thing may backfire on the Democrats in Louisiana, which is the most Catholic state in the US. Also, the Democratic attack ads oversimplify, saying that the Republican believes that Protestants and other non-Catholics "are utterly depraved" - which is not what he wrote. (Whether he believes that is another question.) For more, see item 3 on the following web page:"
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/augustweb-only/134-41.0.html
Friday, 24 August 2007
Reflections on the prosperity gospel or divine provision
The following post is from Tony Richie who sent me a copy of his contribution to an ongoing email discussion between members of one of the groups at the meeting in Toulouse which was looking specifically at healing and provision. I've very slightly edited what Tony has written - thanks for this Tony.
"I just read about your interesting take on our references to "rice Christians". And I also remember Kajsa's remarks. In fact, we extended that a little in our small group discussion. If I recall correctly, Rima was concerned that those who preach physical healing and financial blessings are offering an unfair enticement to conversion. As you can probably guess, Pentecostals have some special interests here too. Only ours is more like understanding salvation to be holistic or multidimensional. I'm sending you a copy of an email I sent to our small group on healing and provision as we continued the discussion."
....
"For my part, I find myself in agreement with Rima's initial suggestion that abuse in these issues - especially in the form of "health and wealth/prosperity gospel" - is a legitmate cause for concern in interreligious contexts regarding conversion. And I suspect also that Kajsa was correct that my own background as a Pentecostal Christian may offer some unique perspectives on this matter. This last only after acknowledging, as Fr. Felix reminded me at Toulouse, that others, such as Roman Catholics, also have strong traditions of miraculous healing and provision. Of course, in an earlier email Amos has already shared some of his insights noting values among various ethnic groups that include divine healing and provision.
In my own thoughts on the subject since our consultation and last email discussion, I wish to distinguish between lifting up the value and verity of the historic Christian and Pentecostal tradition and experience of divine healing and provision while acknowledging and addressing those who may and do abuse these for their own selfish purposes. I think this will help us with the issue without hurting innocent others.
Perhaps briefly noting some previous work already done in this area will be helpful. For example, on healing, Pentecostal historical theologian?Ronald A. N. Kydd, in Healing through the Centuries: Models for Understanding (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1998) notes that divine or miraculous healing is rooted in the life and ministry of Jesus and the Apostles and present in many forms throughout Church history. He argues that divine healing is an ongoing phenomenon and that it's practice is indeed a legitmate form of gospel ministry today. He also admits, however, that the claims of healers and their supporters are often overstated. Yet the stereotypical healer really does not exist, as a wide variety of practioners show. Significantly, divine healing flows out of mystery, and has its source in the grace of God, and should never be used to prove (or disprove?) doctrinal correctness. He even says that "Divine healing has little to do with the rightness of all theological positions any particular healer might believe and everything to do with the endless love of the Divine Person" (xxiv).
As for so-called "prosperity," or as I prefer, "divine provision," Pentecostal scholars Irving Hexham (religious studies) and Karla Poewe-Hexham (anthropologist) show that while abuse may be rampant reactionism is also a problem. For example, negative studies of the "prosperity gospel" in Africa relied on anecdotal evidence and failed to appreciate the longstanding significance of belief in material provision in traditional black African religious concerns. The Hexhams, and this reminds me some of a point in our small group discussion, found that the reflex reaction of many is to blame the problem on imported (North) American values--but that this is not entirely correct. Please see "South Africa," in The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal Charismatic Movements, eds., Stanely M. Burgess and Eduard M. Van Der Maas, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2002), 227-38 (esp. 237-38). Indeed, I would argue in agreement with Amos Yong that Christianity is holistic and includes material blessings in a multidimensional soteriology. See The Spirit Poured Out on All Flesh: The Possibility of a Global Pentecostal Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2005), 91-98.
However, Kimberly Ervin Alexander, in Pentecostal Healing: Models in Theology and Practice (UK: Deo, 2006) is surely correct that a greater variety than previously supposed exists regarding the thought and practice of healing among Pentecostals. And Leonard Lovett argues that "Positive Confession Theology", which is really the basis for health and wealth teaching, is problematic even within Pentecostalism and ultimately unbiblical. See The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal Charismatic Movements, eds., Stanely M. Burgess and Eduard M. Van Der Maas, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2002), 992-94. Might not we accordingly affirm variety and target so-called positive confession more directly rather than in any way sounding pejorative regarding divine healing and provision in and of themselves?
I am reasonably sure that a position statement in our Code of Conduct on Conversion that takes into account the above dynamics will be worthy of acceptance by Pentecostals and Charismatics who higly value the doctrine and experience of divine healing and provision. Also, it will still be well able to address the problem of abuse."
"I just read about your interesting take on our references to "rice Christians". And I also remember Kajsa's remarks. In fact, we extended that a little in our small group discussion. If I recall correctly, Rima was concerned that those who preach physical healing and financial blessings are offering an unfair enticement to conversion. As you can probably guess, Pentecostals have some special interests here too. Only ours is more like understanding salvation to be holistic or multidimensional. I'm sending you a copy of an email I sent to our small group on healing and provision as we continued the discussion."
....
"For my part, I find myself in agreement with Rima's initial suggestion that abuse in these issues - especially in the form of "health and wealth/prosperity gospel" - is a legitmate cause for concern in interreligious contexts regarding conversion. And I suspect also that Kajsa was correct that my own background as a Pentecostal Christian may offer some unique perspectives on this matter. This last only after acknowledging, as Fr. Felix reminded me at Toulouse, that others, such as Roman Catholics, also have strong traditions of miraculous healing and provision. Of course, in an earlier email Amos has already shared some of his insights noting values among various ethnic groups that include divine healing and provision.
In my own thoughts on the subject since our consultation and last email discussion, I wish to distinguish between lifting up the value and verity of the historic Christian and Pentecostal tradition and experience of divine healing and provision while acknowledging and addressing those who may and do abuse these for their own selfish purposes. I think this will help us with the issue without hurting innocent others.
Perhaps briefly noting some previous work already done in this area will be helpful. For example, on healing, Pentecostal historical theologian?Ronald A. N. Kydd, in Healing through the Centuries: Models for Understanding (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1998) notes that divine or miraculous healing is rooted in the life and ministry of Jesus and the Apostles and present in many forms throughout Church history. He argues that divine healing is an ongoing phenomenon and that it's practice is indeed a legitmate form of gospel ministry today. He also admits, however, that the claims of healers and their supporters are often overstated. Yet the stereotypical healer really does not exist, as a wide variety of practioners show. Significantly, divine healing flows out of mystery, and has its source in the grace of God, and should never be used to prove (or disprove?) doctrinal correctness. He even says that "Divine healing has little to do with the rightness of all theological positions any particular healer might believe and everything to do with the endless love of the Divine Person" (xxiv).
As for so-called "prosperity," or as I prefer, "divine provision," Pentecostal scholars Irving Hexham (religious studies) and Karla Poewe-Hexham (anthropologist) show that while abuse may be rampant reactionism is also a problem. For example, negative studies of the "prosperity gospel" in Africa relied on anecdotal evidence and failed to appreciate the longstanding significance of belief in material provision in traditional black African religious concerns. The Hexhams, and this reminds me some of a point in our small group discussion, found that the reflex reaction of many is to blame the problem on imported (North) American values--but that this is not entirely correct. Please see "South Africa," in The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal Charismatic Movements, eds., Stanely M. Burgess and Eduard M. Van Der Maas, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2002), 227-38 (esp. 237-38). Indeed, I would argue in agreement with Amos Yong that Christianity is holistic and includes material blessings in a multidimensional soteriology. See The Spirit Poured Out on All Flesh: The Possibility of a Global Pentecostal Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2005), 91-98.
However, Kimberly Ervin Alexander, in Pentecostal Healing: Models in Theology and Practice (UK: Deo, 2006) is surely correct that a greater variety than previously supposed exists regarding the thought and practice of healing among Pentecostals. And Leonard Lovett argues that "Positive Confession Theology", which is really the basis for health and wealth teaching, is problematic even within Pentecostalism and ultimately unbiblical. See The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal Charismatic Movements, eds., Stanely M. Burgess and Eduard M. Van Der Maas, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2002), 992-94. Might not we accordingly affirm variety and target so-called positive confession more directly rather than in any way sounding pejorative regarding divine healing and provision in and of themselves?
I am reasonably sure that a position statement in our Code of Conduct on Conversion that takes into account the above dynamics will be worthy of acceptance by Pentecostals and Charismatics who higly value the doctrine and experience of divine healing and provision. Also, it will still be well able to address the problem of abuse."
Tuesday, 21 August 2007
Why do I blog?
Well I'm blogging because I was asked to give it a try by some colleagues at work, to see whether it might be possible to speak in a different way about a WCC meeting. And in case you're wondering, no I had no training - though senior management aka as Stephen - did set up the template etc for me. (OK I admit he also ironed out the odd photo that was posted upside down and immediately corrected the post when I said Simon supported Machester United rather than Manchester City - but that is what husbands are for, right?) I have been amazed at how easy it is - and appalled at how utterly dreadful my six fingered typing is! And even downloading the photos upside down has been fun.
Above all it has been a fascinating experience because I can now really see how blogging could work as a tool for maintaining and persuing discussions, contacts and networks following on from meetings. It is a little like a sort of live newspaper - I'm not claiming that for what I've written but I can really see how useful it sould be.
At a more personal level it has been interesting finding my voice - translators deal all day long with other people's voices, interpreters just try to keep up and often remember nothing of what they've said. So writing in my own voice has been good, but I noticed several things. The first was that most of the writing in my own voice that I've done in recent years has been of sermons and that does show, I did try to stop when I became too "preachy" (the posh word is kerygmatic) and I teased myself that I was becoming the worst kind of "letter from the minister" in the parish magazine - "Dear parishioners, as I looked out of my study window I thought God is just like a dishwasher...."
Another thing I noticed is how much I love language and how much language - even when there isn't interpretation - plays a huge role in international meetings and religious discussions of any kind. Words really are such wonderful things, there are so many wonderful incongruities between and within languages and it was great to note that down as it occurred to me rather than just let it pass into my subconscious.
Finally (for now) and this was the most difficult part - how to honour the discussion but respect that this meeting was a process that was ongoing - how to speak with my own voice and opinion and also leave space for that of others. I experienced a few moments of what practising journalistic responsibility is like, and on one occasion when I knew I was sailing a little close to the wind I did send my copy first to the aforementioned senior editor who sanitised my copy. I'll say a little more about that in a later post. But what is frightening is how terrifyingly quickly your words, thoughts, mistakes etc. get out there.
In the end it was that immediacy that really helped me find a voice - it's just like chatting to the computer.
And of course finding the time is easy - there was no tv in the Catholic Institute in Toulouse and I've certainly watched much less since I came back and continued blogging - swapping one small screen for another.
Above all it has been a fascinating experience because I can now really see how blogging could work as a tool for maintaining and persuing discussions, contacts and networks following on from meetings. It is a little like a sort of live newspaper - I'm not claiming that for what I've written but I can really see how useful it sould be.
At a more personal level it has been interesting finding my voice - translators deal all day long with other people's voices, interpreters just try to keep up and often remember nothing of what they've said. So writing in my own voice has been good, but I noticed several things. The first was that most of the writing in my own voice that I've done in recent years has been of sermons and that does show, I did try to stop when I became too "preachy" (the posh word is kerygmatic) and I teased myself that I was becoming the worst kind of "letter from the minister" in the parish magazine - "Dear parishioners, as I looked out of my study window I thought God is just like a dishwasher...."
Another thing I noticed is how much I love language and how much language - even when there isn't interpretation - plays a huge role in international meetings and religious discussions of any kind. Words really are such wonderful things, there are so many wonderful incongruities between and within languages and it was great to note that down as it occurred to me rather than just let it pass into my subconscious.
Finally (for now) and this was the most difficult part - how to honour the discussion but respect that this meeting was a process that was ongoing - how to speak with my own voice and opinion and also leave space for that of others. I experienced a few moments of what practising journalistic responsibility is like, and on one occasion when I knew I was sailing a little close to the wind I did send my copy first to the aforementioned senior editor who sanitised my copy. I'll say a little more about that in a later post. But what is frightening is how terrifyingly quickly your words, thoughts, mistakes etc. get out there.
In the end it was that immediacy that really helped me find a voice - it's just like chatting to the computer.
And of course finding the time is easy - there was no tv in the Catholic Institute in Toulouse and I've certainly watched much less since I came back and continued blogging - swapping one small screen for another.
Rice Chistians - why do we use that term?
Brewer's dictionary of phrase and fable defines "Rice Christians" as "Converts to Christianity for worldly benefits, such as a supply of rice to Indians. Profession of Christianity born of lucre, not faith."
I've been thinking about this expression a bit since our meeting. It was raised in our discussion of a code of conduct on conversion in Toulouse in relation to church Diakonia or to economic and social pressure, subtle or overt. But I wondered about the expression itself, it seems a very loaded phrase - why call people who convert for potential worldly benefits rice Christians - why are they not tea and scone Christians, or spaghetti Christians or meat and two veg Christians? I suppose what I mean is that is makes so many assumptions both about the people likely to be so venal as to change religion - people who eat rice; and about those doing mission as well - Christians are of course bringing the rice. I really wonder about this, isn't there something in the Bible when the 72 are sent out which encourages those carrying the good news to actually eat and drink what is offered to them in the houses that welcome them in peace. (And of course despite this stream of consciousness writing the glories of the internet mean I've now just checked the reference Luke 10.7 "Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you".) It isn't at all the holy, wonderful Christians bringing rice but very often actually others who we seek to do mission to feed us.
However, unfortunately it would seem that the term "rice Christian" is commonly used in discussions of these kinds of issues. I really think it would be great if we could come up with another expression - how about social mobility Christians or survival Christians, surely there must be a better idea.
And then there's Kajsa Ahlstrand's remark reflecting that there is surely something problematic in referring to some converts as rice Christians while also trying to listen to Asian theologians who affirm that "God is rice".
What I did find heartening in the discussions in Toulouse was the overwhelming agreement that Christians service in the world is not about receiving anything in return, neither rice nor potatoes nor souls saved. Service is freely offered just as God's love is freely offered. No strings attached.
So to end a long quote on God is rice from an address by the WCC's former general secretary Konrad Raiser
I've been thinking about this expression a bit since our meeting. It was raised in our discussion of a code of conduct on conversion in Toulouse in relation to church Diakonia or to economic and social pressure, subtle or overt. But I wondered about the expression itself, it seems a very loaded phrase - why call people who convert for potential worldly benefits rice Christians - why are they not tea and scone Christians, or spaghetti Christians or meat and two veg Christians? I suppose what I mean is that is makes so many assumptions both about the people likely to be so venal as to change religion - people who eat rice; and about those doing mission as well - Christians are of course bringing the rice. I really wonder about this, isn't there something in the Bible when the 72 are sent out which encourages those carrying the good news to actually eat and drink what is offered to them in the houses that welcome them in peace. (And of course despite this stream of consciousness writing the glories of the internet mean I've now just checked the reference Luke 10.7 "Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you".) It isn't at all the holy, wonderful Christians bringing rice but very often actually others who we seek to do mission to feed us.
However, unfortunately it would seem that the term "rice Christian" is commonly used in discussions of these kinds of issues. I really think it would be great if we could come up with another expression - how about social mobility Christians or survival Christians, surely there must be a better idea.
And then there's Kajsa Ahlstrand's remark reflecting that there is surely something problematic in referring to some converts as rice Christians while also trying to listen to Asian theologians who affirm that "God is rice".
What I did find heartening in the discussions in Toulouse was the overwhelming agreement that Christians service in the world is not about receiving anything in return, neither rice nor potatoes nor souls saved. Service is freely offered just as God's love is freely offered. No strings attached.
So to end a long quote on God is rice from an address by the WCC's former general secretary Konrad Raiser
"From an Asian perspective, Masao Takenaka has pointed to the way in which images and symbols rooted in the local culture can nurture the power of spiritual imagination and shape the human sense of responsibility. In an essay on Asian spirituality entitled God is Rice, he interprets a poem by the Korean Christian poet Kim Chi Ha, Heaven is Rice, which meditates on the highly symbolic character of rice as the daily food for people in Asia. "The Chinese character for peace (wa) literally means harmony. It derives from two words: one is rice, and the other is mouth. It means that unless we share rice together with all people, we will not have peace. When every mouth in the whole inhabited world is filled with daily food, then we can have peace." This leads to two important considerations: "When we say that God is rice, we do not mean that we should worship rice. We take rice as the symbol of God's gift of life. … Second, if we acknowledge that God is rice, the symbolic source of the whole creation, and if we accept nature as our companion rather than as an object to be conquered or exploited, there will be a decisive change in our attitude towards the ecological issues."
This approach to spirituality as rooted in the culture of people, especially the people of the 'Third World', is reflected also in the report of the 1992 Assembly of the Ecumenical Association of Third World Theologians in Nairobi. In his introduction, K.C. Abraham quotes the preparatory statement by the Theological Commission of EATWOT which, referring to the same poem by Kim Chi Ha, says: "The cry of the Third World is a cry for life. It is a cry for freedom and dignity that constitute life as human. It is a cry for the rice and bread that sustains life as well as for the community that symbolizes and grows from rice and bread eaten in company. … Rice and bread for one person alone may not be spiritual because it may be selfish. … Or in the words of Nikolai Berdiaev, rice for myself alone may be unspiritual, but rice for my hungry sister and brother is spiritual. Thus our cry for life is a cry for the bread and the rice of life and for the spirituality of all the activities, processes and relationships bound up with producing and sharing rice and bread. Ours is a cry for a spirituality of and for life."
An evangelical case for hope about Muslim migration to Europe
And here is an interesting link to an article by John Allen on the subject of making the case for hope when considering Muslim migration to Europe.
http://ncrcafe.org/node/1270
I should add that I do not agree at all with the sentiments the article expresses. As a liberal and a bit of a leftist I'm not an advocate of encouraging the forces of conservatism to join together but I do think it's interesting that there is also a spread of opinion on the evangelical side on these sort of issues.
http://ncrcafe.org/node/1270
I should add that I do not agree at all with the sentiments the article expresses. As a liberal and a bit of a leftist I'm not an advocate of encouraging the forces of conservatism to join together but I do think it's interesting that there is also a spread of opinion on the evangelical side on these sort of issues.
Sikh to convert to Christianity in order to get into good school?
There is an interesting link here to a British story on the BBC about a possible Sikh conversion to Christianity in order to get into a good school.
This takes the discussion we had in Toulouse about "rice Christians" a step further perhaps.
If I have time I'll post a little more about rice Christians at a later point. Kajsa made the point at our meeting that at a time when we are saying God is rice, why should we question or perhaps even deplore "rice Christians" -ie people who convert in order to get access to some form of actual or perceived material gain.
This takes the discussion we had in Toulouse about "rice Christians" a step further perhaps.
If I have time I'll post a little more about rice Christians at a later point. Kajsa made the point at our meeting that at a time when we are saying God is rice, why should we question or perhaps even deplore "rice Christians" -ie people who convert in order to get access to some form of actual or perceived material gain.
To follow the discussion from India on conversion
In order to be able to follow the email debate between Richard Howell from the Evangelical Alliance, P. Ninan Benjamin from the Bangalore Initiative for Regious Dialogue (BIRD) and John Longlois also from the Evangelical Alliance I've created a separete repository for these rather longer documents.
You can visit the first message in the repository by going to the following address
http://conversion-documents.blogspot.com/2007/08/convert-to-god-or-christianity-by-p-n.html
When I have a little more time I'll try to build the links in a little bit more organically - when I have time - midnight tonight probably!
So here's Jean Longlois in reply to Ninan Benjamin's first article.
You can visit the first message in the repository by going to the following address
http://conversion-documents.blogspot.com/2007/08/convert-to-god-or-christianity-by-p-n.html
When I have a little more time I'll try to build the links in a little bit more organically - when I have time - midnight tonight probably!
So here's Jean Longlois in reply to Ninan Benjamin's first article.
Monday, 20 August 2007
Have I converted?
I've been wondering about this the past few days - did I convert. The memory that comes to mind is of talking with two boys on the school bus coming home one day. I was sort of maintaining a creationist argument - people who know me now might find this a little difficult to believe. The older boys who were trying to prove to me that I was wrong used a confusion between having to believe in every word of the creation story in Genesis (today I'd say which one of course!) if you have faith in God to argue their point. Looking back on that old argument, the thing that I see most now is how completely biblically and theologically iliterate I was and I think how very sad that is. My strong sense of faith was not really matched by any knowledge or intellectual framework to go with that.
I can still remember the wonderful liberation I felt newly arrived in France when at a weekend for 60 young people from the church one of my colleagues started us all thinking by giving a bravura performance, "in the beginning the world was round, round and flat, flat as a pancake, with a great dome above and great dome below." A real introduction to a way of thinking about how the earth was thought about in old testament times. We weren't there to try and tell young people to believe in several impossible or dogmatic things before breakfast, but rather to encourage them to understand and celebrate God's wonderful world and their and our faith.
In my early teens although I attended a fairly middle of the road and perhaps liberal church, the church youth group was run largely by evangelicals. I can remember watching at youth services as others went forward to respond to the altar call, I never did. The congregation I belonged to was ecumenical and made up of a real mix of people from very liberal to biblically conservative - and I still hold on to it as a special community and I'm truly grateful for the sense of vocation I received during that time of my life. But I would argue now that we need to rediscover a sense of passion about the Bible story and stories. Hans Ruedi Weber calls it "The Book that reads Me" - for me the way forwards in a secularised world is about sharing the story rather than dogmas or systems. It will never be about choosing science or God but choosing both. - and it's fine to share that from the outset with children and young people.
I hadn't really thought until now that perhaps I left an evangelical worldview behind at some point during my teens. I couldn't say when that happened but sometime in my teens the gradual move from evangelical to liberal just happened - and I know others who have made the opposite journey. How tolerant in the Christian churches are we of one another I wonder? So quick to pigeonhole people as in one camp or another rather than to in some way both truly discuss differences and celebrate the enormous diversity of God's church.
Enough I think, this is probably not understandable or even intereseting to anyone but me. Sleep calls!
I can still remember the wonderful liberation I felt newly arrived in France when at a weekend for 60 young people from the church one of my colleagues started us all thinking by giving a bravura performance, "in the beginning the world was round, round and flat, flat as a pancake, with a great dome above and great dome below." A real introduction to a way of thinking about how the earth was thought about in old testament times. We weren't there to try and tell young people to believe in several impossible or dogmatic things before breakfast, but rather to encourage them to understand and celebrate God's wonderful world and their and our faith.
In my early teens although I attended a fairly middle of the road and perhaps liberal church, the church youth group was run largely by evangelicals. I can remember watching at youth services as others went forward to respond to the altar call, I never did. The congregation I belonged to was ecumenical and made up of a real mix of people from very liberal to biblically conservative - and I still hold on to it as a special community and I'm truly grateful for the sense of vocation I received during that time of my life. But I would argue now that we need to rediscover a sense of passion about the Bible story and stories. Hans Ruedi Weber calls it "The Book that reads Me" - for me the way forwards in a secularised world is about sharing the story rather than dogmas or systems. It will never be about choosing science or God but choosing both. - and it's fine to share that from the outset with children and young people.
I hadn't really thought until now that perhaps I left an evangelical worldview behind at some point during my teens. I couldn't say when that happened but sometime in my teens the gradual move from evangelical to liberal just happened - and I know others who have made the opposite journey. How tolerant in the Christian churches are we of one another I wonder? So quick to pigeonhole people as in one camp or another rather than to in some way both truly discuss differences and celebrate the enormous diversity of God's church.
Enough I think, this is probably not understandable or even intereseting to anyone but me. Sleep calls!
Et pour les lecteurs francophones
Il y a des articles intéressants sur le sites de Réforme. Pas seulement sur Lustiger mais aussi sur Bonhoeffer.
And Jean-Luc Mouton also runs a blog from the site - not sure about his obsession with "le people" which is French for celebrities I suppose. President Sarkozy certainly seems to be keeping up the momentum for celebrity status - after all these days I suppose politics is just a side show to meeting the rich and famous and getting them to invite you free of charge to one of their outrageously sumptuous houses - near a beach of course!
And Jean-Luc Mouton also runs a blog from the site - not sure about his obsession with "le people" which is French for celebrities I suppose. President Sarkozy certainly seems to be keeping up the momentum for celebrity status - after all these days I suppose politics is just a side show to meeting the rich and famous and getting them to invite you free of charge to one of their outrageously sumptuous houses - near a beach of course!
Discussion about whether evangelisation is good for Christianity continues
Following the meeting in Toulouse, John Longlois from Guernsey, who is very involved in the World Evangelical Alliance, and Ninan Benjamin, from the Bangalore Initiative for Religious Dialogue, are having quite a frank exchange about evangelisation and whether it helps or hinders the cause of Christianity in India. I'm not going to reproduce all of what they say here - as it is quite lengthy - but I'll try to find a way that you can click and go to their contributions, but I'll need to think about how to do that - every day I learn more about blogging and its technical limitations and possibilities.
Meanwhile, and much as I hate to give publicity to the Murdoch empire, some of you may find edification via Libby Purvis' column in the times and particularly these 50 sayings on religion by George Bush.
On the same site you can also find Ruth Gledhill's excellent blog on religion http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/ which I will go back to read one day when I have time.
Meanwhile, and much as I hate to give publicity to the Murdoch empire, some of you may find edification via Libby Purvis' column in the times and particularly these 50 sayings on religion by George Bush.
On the same site you can also find Ruth Gledhill's excellent blog on religion http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/ which I will go back to read one day when I have time.
Sunday, 19 August 2007
The pleasures of reading
One of the great things about travelling by train - and by bus to work in the morning - is being able to read and going to Toulouse was no exception. I enjoy picking up books in railway stations - the selection is often much better than you imagine and I'll end up reading something I might not have come across or bought otherwise. One recent example for me was Camilla Gibb's Sweetness in the Belly it paints a wonderfully evocative picture of Islam as lived from the inside - Lilly the main character speaks of life and spirituality and love - as well as exile and violence and war. A very, very different Islam from the one spoken of in the media so often. It was a satisfying read and was equally evocative of the London of the 1980s, reminding me of the Somali women I used to work with.
Anyway more about reading some other time, books are my main escape from reality and help me maintain some kind of grip on sanity!
Anyway more about reading some other time, books are my main escape from reality and help me maintain some kind of grip on sanity!
Reflecting theologically on life
One of the joys of writing this blog is actually at last getting around to visiting other people's blogs and websites, trying to find out what friends and aquaintances are up to.
Our friend Simon Barrow runs the sort of website I wish I had the time and theological erudition to do myself. In part of the strap line he says this: "Religion is rarely out of the news these days. But how much of it is simply "bad faith" for humanity and the planet? ... FaithInSociety seeks a conversation between reason and hope, shaped by the subversive memory of the Gospel." The site has really good links - though of course they do tend to be culturally specific to the UK (I like that of course!) and mostly in English. Anyway I found it great to spend a bit of time there and hope some of you may enjoy it too.
For something in Spanish you could go to the Lupa Protestante site - they describe themselves as una revista al servicio de los sueños y las utopias and seem to mainly be a news service - but I like the idea of a news service serving our dreams and utopias. Just another way of talking about the commonwealth of Christ perhaps.
And finally - I really must cook us some supper and do something other than blog - Simon's quote about "the subversive memory of the Gospel" immediately made me think of my great friend Janet Lees who is a speech therapist, minister and theologian. She's just brought out a brilliant and very readable book called "Word of Mouth" which is all about using the remembered Bible to build community.
Janet's husband Bob Warwicker is an industrial chaplain. His was the first blog I ever read when he wrote while walking from Land's End to John O Groats.
Probably what I've just been doing is more to do with selling religion rather than reflecting theologically on life - sorry to use a misleading title to draw you in. I think that the commercialisation of religion, religion for sale will be an issue I'll return to following our discussions in Toulouse. Which leads me to one final link from my reading of the sexistly named New Statesman - fascinating to think of the Bible as a must have fashion accessory. I do rather wonder though about how many people actually read and understand versions of the Authorised Version today. The thees and thous are just about all right but the verb conjugations make for very difficult reading in public - especially by non native speakers.
Anyway the water is boiling - pasta for supper I think.
Our friend Simon Barrow runs the sort of website I wish I had the time and theological erudition to do myself. In part of the strap line he says this: "Religion is rarely out of the news these days. But how much of it is simply "bad faith" for humanity and the planet? ... FaithInSociety seeks a conversation between reason and hope, shaped by the subversive memory of the Gospel." The site has really good links - though of course they do tend to be culturally specific to the UK (I like that of course!) and mostly in English. Anyway I found it great to spend a bit of time there and hope some of you may enjoy it too.
For something in Spanish you could go to the Lupa Protestante site - they describe themselves as una revista al servicio de los sueños y las utopias and seem to mainly be a news service - but I like the idea of a news service serving our dreams and utopias. Just another way of talking about the commonwealth of Christ perhaps.
And finally - I really must cook us some supper and do something other than blog - Simon's quote about "the subversive memory of the Gospel" immediately made me think of my great friend Janet Lees who is a speech therapist, minister and theologian. She's just brought out a brilliant and very readable book called "Word of Mouth" which is all about using the remembered Bible to build community.
Janet's husband Bob Warwicker is an industrial chaplain. His was the first blog I ever read when he wrote while walking from Land's End to John O Groats.
Probably what I've just been doing is more to do with selling religion rather than reflecting theologically on life - sorry to use a misleading title to draw you in. I think that the commercialisation of religion, religion for sale will be an issue I'll return to following our discussions in Toulouse. Which leads me to one final link from my reading of the sexistly named New Statesman - fascinating to think of the Bible as a must have fashion accessory. I do rather wonder though about how many people actually read and understand versions of the Authorised Version today. The thees and thous are just about all right but the verb conjugations make for very difficult reading in public - especially by non native speakers.
Anyway the water is boiling - pasta for supper I think.
Further reflections on conversion
Returning to the ecumenical centre this week I've had time (occasionally!) to reflect on my own conversion, on what I once believed and what I now believe.At morning prayer on Thursday we heard the reading from the book of Acts 16 about the conversion of Lydia. "The Lord opened her heart to listen eagerly to what was being said." Sometimes in the international setting I sense it might be possible to get rather blasé about a new message that comes from others. Perhaps in the modern globalised world we will all feel that there is nothing new to listen eagerly to...
Meditating on the text I sensed also that my prayer that God might keep my heart open was itself a reflection of my privileged position - I have never had to struggle to claim my Christian identity, I've never lost my job becasue of what I believe, or not been able to study or had to take my right to believe to court.
The need for enshrining true and clear freedom of belief into national constitutions and the practice of the law came across to me most powerfully in the experiences from Malaysia that Rev Dr Hermen Shastri shared with us in Toulouse. Where confusion exists between religious law and secular law, individuals and groups of people can be caught very painfully in the middle with the secular courts sometimes giving way to the law of the religious majority. I wonder what it is about someone believing and practising something different to ourselves that destablises we human beings so much. And of course the story of one individual converting can sometimes be instrumentalised to forment unrest or to encourage tightening of the legal framework.
Today's French Protestants have within them a fairly strong sense of being the inheritors of a once highly persecuted minority, yet today many local congregations are not historical protestants at all but converts from Catholicism or more likely from secularism. Sometimes I wonder whether looking to the past in the way we sometimes do is very healthy. However in 2005 French Protestants celebrated 100 years of the separation of church and state and used that event to ask that the French government consider a similar law for recognition of France's Muslem community. I think that's quite a positive way of using awareness of one's own history to try to speak the truth to power in one's own time.
From Bangalore - Christianity in India must rethink itself
P. Ninan Benjamin has since returning home to India sent those attending the meeting in Toulouse various articles he has written. He is a freelance journalist and works with the Bangalore Initiative for Religious Dialogue and you can find out more about BIRD and read other articles by Ninan Benjamin on his blog.
Benjamin's starting point for the article I quote from here was disagreement with a statement by Rev Dr Richard Howell General Secretary of the Evangelical Fellowship of India. Richard Howell was also at the meeting in Toulouse, and has in an email he's just sent us stated that the article misquotes him and that he has always held that conversion comes from God.
Of course I hope very much that they have through this process learnt much about each others' perspective on Christianity in India. I couldn't not wish that any of us become anything less in terms of our convictions as a result of meeting and discussing, but I sense that it is possible to also become something more, to have new horizons and sensitivities opened up as a result of the experience. Perhaps that's too utopian, but believing it's possible is why I believe in unity. However I realised once more in Toulouse that it is often those who come from our own contexts but who represent very different convictions to our own within that context who we find it most difficult to accept and be opened up by in discussion and dialogue. Perhaps I should be writing that in the first person singular rather than in the rather more anonymous "we".
Anyway here are two extracts from what Ninan Benjamin has written:
"...Some forty years ago, a brilliant Danish Professor, Dr Kaaj Baggo, in the United Theological College, Bangalore, made history when he said: “Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists should never give up their religion for the Christian Church.” On the other hand the Church should humble itself and find ways of identifying with other groups, taking Christ with them Christ, he said, was not the chairman of the Christian party. If God is the Lord of the universe he will work through every culture and religion. We must give up the crusading spirit of the colonial era and stop singing weird hymns like “Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war”. This will lead to Hindu Christianity or Buddhist Christianity."
And Benjamin ends his article from May:
"...Christianity in today’s India with a renascent Hinduism faces an unprecedented crisis. If it is alive to the situation and sensitive to the signs of time, it has to rethink itself, reorient itself, and rediscover its basic substance and interpret that in terms acceptable to the Indian mind and genius."
Benjamin's starting point for the article I quote from here was disagreement with a statement by Rev Dr Richard Howell General Secretary of the Evangelical Fellowship of India. Richard Howell was also at the meeting in Toulouse, and has in an email he's just sent us stated that the article misquotes him and that he has always held that conversion comes from God.
Of course I hope very much that they have through this process learnt much about each others' perspective on Christianity in India. I couldn't not wish that any of us become anything less in terms of our convictions as a result of meeting and discussing, but I sense that it is possible to also become something more, to have new horizons and sensitivities opened up as a result of the experience. Perhaps that's too utopian, but believing it's possible is why I believe in unity. However I realised once more in Toulouse that it is often those who come from our own contexts but who represent very different convictions to our own within that context who we find it most difficult to accept and be opened up by in discussion and dialogue. Perhaps I should be writing that in the first person singular rather than in the rather more anonymous "we".
Anyway here are two extracts from what Ninan Benjamin has written:
"...Some forty years ago, a brilliant Danish Professor, Dr Kaaj Baggo, in the United Theological College, Bangalore, made history when he said: “Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists should never give up their religion for the Christian Church.” On the other hand the Church should humble itself and find ways of identifying with other groups, taking Christ with them Christ, he said, was not the chairman of the Christian party. If God is the Lord of the universe he will work through every culture and religion. We must give up the crusading spirit of the colonial era and stop singing weird hymns like “Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war”. This will lead to Hindu Christianity or Buddhist Christianity."
And Benjamin ends his article from May:
"...Christianity in today’s India with a renascent Hinduism faces an unprecedented crisis. If it is alive to the situation and sensitive to the signs of time, it has to rethink itself, reorient itself, and rediscover its basic substance and interpret that in terms acceptable to the Indian mind and genius."
Saturday, 18 August 2007
Common ground - Denmark - Keeping the faith
Mogen Mogensen from Denmark is very involved in Christian-Muslim dialogue, he also blogs and has been involved in the common ground film project which you can read more about by clicking on the link.
By the way my photo on this website was taken by the WCC's part time staff photographer Peter Williams who also originally comes from Denmark. As you can tell from the work on his website he's a great photographer and has also made some award-winning films and set up the Keeping the Faith project at the WCC.
By the way my photo on this website was taken by the WCC's part time staff photographer Peter Williams who also originally comes from Denmark. As you can tell from the work on his website he's a great photographer and has also made some award-winning films and set up the Keeping the Faith project at the WCC.
In praise of reading paper copy
Each Saturday the Times in London has a faith news column and there's a small item on our meeting on conversion amongst the items they list there.
One of the things I still really miss about living away from "home" in the UK is access to physical copies of my favourite British newspapers. This sounds like a horribly ex pat type thing to say - I'm obviously in the process of becoming something I don't like to think I am. The Guardian we get here is ridiculously expensive and very thin compared with the real version, the Observer also often comes with most of the sections missing, which makes me cross when it's three times the price. So over the past two or three years we've taken to buying the Saturday Telegraph - often a day late - because it is at least all there and the back sections, praticularly the gardening and books sections are really good. It is however irredeemably right wing, not called the Torygraph for nothing. But maybe even that is quite a good reality check meaning I can't gaze at the old homeland only through my tribal Labour tinted glasses!
Anyway I sort of like the bohemian mess of newspapers strewn around the place - "but I was saving those for a reason" is a cry that often goes up when I try to clear things up a bit. I know that I shouldn't be admitting to this in the age of access to the internet but there really is something about the serendipity of reading the printed versions, your eye sees things that you might not choose to read in the online version. Of course doing the crossword by printing it onto a piece of A4 also wouldn't quite feel the same. I like the feel of reading a newspaper, having my favourite paper in my hands is somehow like being with a good friend. I do feel that a bit with some websites I like but it really isn't the same.
Looking at the UK websites this morning I began to reflect about how very culturally specific our news is, how very insular as well - in Britian this insularity is of course literally true -in France it's called "hexagonality" as the borders of France are seen as forming a hexagon. Today's British press leads with the death of a 94 year old journalist, not really sure that someone from another country would really get it, not really sure I do. The establishment celebrating one of their own, though it was great that he was still writing until the end and his commitment to telling the story of Darfur is really to be praised - he travelled there aged 91 as a campaigning journalist and it was the theme of his last piece. Not so insular after all perhaps. Lucky him, it is a special grace to be blessed with good health even in old age.
One of the things I still really miss about living away from "home" in the UK is access to physical copies of my favourite British newspapers. This sounds like a horribly ex pat type thing to say - I'm obviously in the process of becoming something I don't like to think I am. The Guardian we get here is ridiculously expensive and very thin compared with the real version, the Observer also often comes with most of the sections missing, which makes me cross when it's three times the price. So over the past two or three years we've taken to buying the Saturday Telegraph - often a day late - because it is at least all there and the back sections, praticularly the gardening and books sections are really good. It is however irredeemably right wing, not called the Torygraph for nothing. But maybe even that is quite a good reality check meaning I can't gaze at the old homeland only through my tribal Labour tinted glasses!
Anyway I sort of like the bohemian mess of newspapers strewn around the place - "but I was saving those for a reason" is a cry that often goes up when I try to clear things up a bit. I know that I shouldn't be admitting to this in the age of access to the internet but there really is something about the serendipity of reading the printed versions, your eye sees things that you might not choose to read in the online version. Of course doing the crossword by printing it onto a piece of A4 also wouldn't quite feel the same. I like the feel of reading a newspaper, having my favourite paper in my hands is somehow like being with a good friend. I do feel that a bit with some websites I like but it really isn't the same.
Looking at the UK websites this morning I began to reflect about how very culturally specific our news is, how very insular as well - in Britian this insularity is of course literally true -in France it's called "hexagonality" as the borders of France are seen as forming a hexagon. Today's British press leads with the death of a 94 year old journalist, not really sure that someone from another country would really get it, not really sure I do. The establishment celebrating one of their own, though it was great that he was still writing until the end and his commitment to telling the story of Darfur is really to be praised - he travelled there aged 91 as a campaigning journalist and it was the theme of his last piece. Not so insular after all perhaps. Lucky him, it is a special grace to be blessed with good health even in old age.
Friday, 17 August 2007
Back home round the corner from a bibulous Voltaire
As I go on posting over the weekend I shall try to put up some photos of Ferney Voltiare now that I'm back home. Before the end of the month when I intend to close this blog I'll also try and reflect on the blogging process and how I've enjoyed it.Anyway to start here is a photo from the hotel and restaurant about 40 metres from my front door (I have to pass three other restaurants in order to get that far!). Voltaire is nursing a glass of something - perhaps it is the armagnac from which la part des anges has evaporated, perhaps it is simply some wine from the top of the Jura - Arbois perhaps - in his time he wouldn't have know the very recent and delicious gamaret which has recently been created here in Geneva.
Anyway I shall post some more over the weekend but not tonight - I need to unwind from work a little so not time for something more edifying.
Bonne nuit.
Thursday, 16 August 2007
conviction ecumenism
An evangelical friend from the pastoral du Pays de Gex - the ministers and church leaders meeting in my small part of France which brings together Reformed, Adventists, Mennonites, Evanglicals and charismatic Protestant churches wrote this to me after reading various parts of the blog.
"My 'directeur de thèse' always mocked 'consensual ecumenism' (which he described as 'pipi de chat'!). Toulouse sounds like a positive first step in 'conviction ecumenism'. Bravo!"
On reading his comments I wondered whether I shouldn't revisit the translation into English I've devised of Bishop Wolfgang Huber's "Okumene der Profile" - which I have tried so far to render as profile based ecumenism (as opposed to consensus ecumenism) but maybe conviction ecumenism would also work, though I'm not quite sure it has exactly the same sense. Anyway these are translation late in the day musings - I'm just a convinced ecumenist I suppose.
And while we're on the subject, your thoughts on the difference between ecumenicalist and ecumenist, or between ecumenism and ecumenicalism will be gratefully received. We speak of little else in the WCC communication department in our spare moments. I'm not even going to think about how to translate that difference into other languages.
"My 'directeur de thèse' always mocked 'consensual ecumenism' (which he described as 'pipi de chat'!). Toulouse sounds like a positive first step in 'conviction ecumenism'. Bravo!"
On reading his comments I wondered whether I shouldn't revisit the translation into English I've devised of Bishop Wolfgang Huber's "Okumene der Profile" - which I have tried so far to render as profile based ecumenism (as opposed to consensus ecumenism) but maybe conviction ecumenism would also work, though I'm not quite sure it has exactly the same sense. Anyway these are translation late in the day musings - I'm just a convinced ecumenist I suppose.
And while we're on the subject, your thoughts on the difference between ecumenicalist and ecumenist, or between ecumenism and ecumenicalism will be gratefully received. We speak of little else in the WCC communication department in our spare moments. I'm not even going to think about how to translate that difference into other languages.
A radio interview by Tony Richie - and Adventist / Evangelical Alliance agreement too
Here's a radio interview Assoc Press religion editor Steve Coleman did with Tony Richie.
The links below in English and german are about agreement between Adventists and World Evangelical Alliance - not on conversion but also interesting.
Adventist Church expects joint statement with World Evangelical Alliance
http://news.adventist.org/data/2007/07/1187035841/index.html.en
Hohes Mass an Übereinstimmung zwischen Adventisten und Evangelikalen
http://www.stanet.ch/APD/news/1482.html
The links below in English and german are about agreement between Adventists and World Evangelical Alliance - not on conversion but also interesting.
Adventist Church expects joint statement with World Evangelical Alliance
http://news.adventist.org/data/2007/07/1187035841/index.html.en
Hohes Mass an Übereinstimmung zwischen Adventisten und Evangelikalen
http://www.stanet.ch/APD/news/1482.html
Some not quite so good news about football
After seeing my post about football Kajsa sent me this.
Football instead of dialogue is not always a good idea, at least not in Norway
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6628929.stm
Football instead of dialogue is not always a good idea, at least not in Norway
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6628929.stm
Even more about angels - in translation
I suppose this should be called "la part des anges - le retour"
Kajsa also wrote questioning my translation of "La part des anges" saying:
"I thought that the expression "la part des anges" referred to the quantity of cognac or armagnac that evaporated during the maturing process. My French is not particularly good, but I am very interested in things potable..."
http://www.armagnac.org/htm/francais/vieillissement.htm
As someone who considers myFrench to be pretty good and my interest in things potable as fairly high too, I am duly humiliated. We translators are used to this, sometimes we get things wrong. I got so carried away with blogging and my own thoughts that I didn't even think to check online. I suppose the evaporating spirit is seen as nearer to heaven, nearer to the angels. I've just checked in my petit Robert and can't find la part des anges either under angels or under part, although there is I now see la part du lion in French too.
So perhaps it is the lion's share of the armagnac which evaporates to be part of the angels. Anyway there seem to be numerous bars and wine cellars throughout France with this angelic name - to be aux anges (on top of the world) would presumably be where some of us would be if we visited these establishments!
Kajsa also wrote questioning my translation of "La part des anges" saying:
"I thought that the expression "la part des anges" referred to the quantity of cognac or armagnac that evaporated during the maturing process. My French is not particularly good, but I am very interested in things potable..."
http://www.armagnac.org/htm/francais/vieillissement.htm
As someone who considers myFrench to be pretty good and my interest in things potable as fairly high too, I am duly humiliated. We translators are used to this, sometimes we get things wrong. I got so carried away with blogging and my own thoughts that I didn't even think to check online. I suppose the evaporating spirit is seen as nearer to heaven, nearer to the angels. I've just checked in my petit Robert and can't find la part des anges either under angels or under part, although there is I now see la part du lion in French too.
So perhaps it is the lion's share of the armagnac which evaporates to be part of the angels. Anyway there seem to be numerous bars and wine cellars throughout France with this angelic name - to be aux anges (on top of the world) would presumably be where some of us would be if we visited these establishments!
From Bangalore
Panavelil Ninan Benjamin who is the coordinator of the Bangalore Initiative for Religious Dialogue (BIRD) encourages us to read the initiative's declaration which is posted here.
Christians who support the declaration may please visit the link and sign it on-line.
The delaration ends:
"While we decry the attempts of religious leaders and fundamentalists of all varieties to convert and re-convert, we pledge to work diligently for inter-faith amity in the best traditions of Indian culture. We hereby call on all Indians to join in our efforts to preserve a pluralist India founded
on secularism and religious inclusion and governed by a Constitution that guarantees all its citizens all freedoms vital to the functioning of a modern democracy."
In a little more about BIRD itself Ninan wrote this:
BIRD is a little lamp, lit and kept burning, by a group of kindred souls and fellow pilgrims who by their conviction, uphold the values of democracy and religious pluralism. Theirs is an inter-faith voyage of discovery, sailing on the winds of near identical views on people and events signifying that whatever the darkness, however profound the sense of lostness, the light of God's love – be it Ram, Allah or Jesus - will continue to shine, for those who have the eyes to see, a heart to love and a soul to believe. BIRD's premise is simplicity itself -striking a match in a dark immense cavern, to dispel the surrounding gloom.
We are convinced that only through inter- religious dialogue can we diffuse the recurring tension between religious groups and communities in this country. We believe in strengthening of inter-faith dialogue in order to elevate communal and religious harmony to the level of a practicing doctrine. In any such dialogues there is need for a full and free exchange of our differing religious experiences, in a spirit of mutual respect, appreciation and sympathy. An exchange of individual or collective experiences will lead to enrichment of each others religious life, purifying and strengthening the religious attitude of mind against irreligious and materialistic attitudes from which stem our personal, social and national problems.
BIRD came into being in 2001 as a response to the growing communal and inter-religious tensions that prevailed in the country at that time. In the beginning we heard a voice - a voice of sanity. That was Mahatma Gandhi telling us: "Show a little humility and a little diffidence about the correctness of your conduct and a little receptiveness. He reminded us "not to seek to satisfy our thirst for ego by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred and jealousy. We should cease to be merchants of hate. We have to teach ourselves that consideration for others is nobler than muscling our way to the front".
Christians who support the declaration may please visit the link and sign it on-line.
The delaration ends:
"While we decry the attempts of religious leaders and fundamentalists of all varieties to convert and re-convert, we pledge to work diligently for inter-faith amity in the best traditions of Indian culture. We hereby call on all Indians to join in our efforts to preserve a pluralist India founded
on secularism and religious inclusion and governed by a Constitution that guarantees all its citizens all freedoms vital to the functioning of a modern democracy."
In a little more about BIRD itself Ninan wrote this:
BIRD is a little lamp, lit and kept burning, by a group of kindred souls and fellow pilgrims who by their conviction, uphold the values of democracy and religious pluralism. Theirs is an inter-faith voyage of discovery, sailing on the winds of near identical views on people and events signifying that whatever the darkness, however profound the sense of lostness, the light of God's love – be it Ram, Allah or Jesus - will continue to shine, for those who have the eyes to see, a heart to love and a soul to believe. BIRD's premise is simplicity itself -striking a match in a dark immense cavern, to dispel the surrounding gloom.
We are convinced that only through inter- religious dialogue can we diffuse the recurring tension between religious groups and communities in this country. We believe in strengthening of inter-faith dialogue in order to elevate communal and religious harmony to the level of a practicing doctrine. In any such dialogues there is need for a full and free exchange of our differing religious experiences, in a spirit of mutual respect, appreciation and sympathy. An exchange of individual or collective experiences will lead to enrichment of each others religious life, purifying and strengthening the religious attitude of mind against irreligious and materialistic attitudes from which stem our personal, social and national problems.
BIRD came into being in 2001 as a response to the growing communal and inter-religious tensions that prevailed in the country at that time. In the beginning we heard a voice - a voice of sanity. That was Mahatma Gandhi telling us: "Show a little humility and a little diffidence about the correctness of your conduct and a little receptiveness. He reminded us "not to seek to satisfy our thirst for ego by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred and jealousy. We should cease to be merchants of hate. We have to teach ourselves that consideration for others is nobler than muscling our way to the front".
Wednesday, 15 August 2007
Quite a lot of interest being generated
Well here is a frivolous photo I took outside a toyshop in Toulouse. I couldn't resist, the rainbow is probably my favourite biblical image - speaking of covenant and promise, sunshine and rain, seedtime and harvest, diversity and filling the heavens, beauty and colour - and to cap it all this one could even be driven by the wind of the spirit. Perhaps Tony Richie is right and we'll all end up Pentecostals in the end!The pretty picture goes with some rather more prosaic links to articles on the meeting showing that interest has been generated by the discussions - and in more than one language which is always a good thing. One thing for a linguist to reflect on of course is that the magnificent rainbow of promise is followed in Genesis by the story of the tower of Babel, humans trying to emulate and even be God in part because they all spoke the same language. Promoters of a single world language take note! :-)
Associated Press
New York Times
Washington Post
International Herald Tribune
Univsion (in Spanish)
AFP (in French)
VirtueOnline
Church Executive Magazine
APIC from ENI (in French)
BlogDei (in French)
ALC (in Spanish)
MS Noticias (in Portugese)
and many others
Reflections on post-modernism or some such
As I reflect on the time in Toulouse at the two meetings lots of quotes stick on my mind in a rather garbled sort of way - as well as in a rather scribbled way on bits of papers that I noted things on while people were talking. One in particular has set me off thinking this evening, "As the world shrinks I need a stronger definition of myself."
I wonder about this and what it means for the way we human beings make sense of our lives today. Does it mean that each of us needs to become more shrill in the way we talk about ourselves and about what gives us meaning; does it mean that groups of us who believe the same thing will perforce become more forceful in defining who we are, more demanding perhaps; does it mean that there will more tension as a result of this ,or less?
Hmmm … lots of questions and I'm not sure I have very real answers. As a liberal, post enlightenment, European, feminist kind of Christian I've often found post-modernism rather attractive and quite helpful. I dare say it also appeals to someone with my magpie type mind as well. I've also found it a useful way of coping, philosophically at least, with surfeits of religious guilt. That probably needs some unpacking but I'm not sure I'm able to do that at this time of night. I suppose post-modernity at its most extreme would be to say that nothing anymore has any meaning - neither humanism nor religion nor morality, perhaps not even post modernity itself.
I think my version of post modernity is about trying to hold disparate bits and pieces of life together in some way which does make sense and give meaning. Somewhere I suspect that the meaning I seek involves radical inclusivity and acceptance but also clear denunciation of injustice. Within that search prayer and reading the Bible have been and remain very important to me - oh no I might actually be a traditionalist at heart!
You will have noticed from these musings that I'm not very good at philosophy. Years ago I invited a young theology student back to my flat for Sunday lunch and wowed him with my erudition about Walter Benjamin and German philosophy - I'd just read a book on the subject by my German tutor (who I of course fancied and hoped to entice with my knowledge!) - 24 years later Stephen is still waiting for a continuation of that particular conversation and has had to sit through many a boring and not doubt trite sermon in the process. Ah the seduction of philosophy...
Perhaps there is hope in the shrinking and sometimes frightening world that we will find a way forwards that allows both for strong self-definition and for equally strong true understanding and openness to others. Maybe that is part of what ecumenism is about.
I wonder about this and what it means for the way we human beings make sense of our lives today. Does it mean that each of us needs to become more shrill in the way we talk about ourselves and about what gives us meaning; does it mean that groups of us who believe the same thing will perforce become more forceful in defining who we are, more demanding perhaps; does it mean that there will more tension as a result of this ,or less?
Hmmm … lots of questions and I'm not sure I have very real answers. As a liberal, post enlightenment, European, feminist kind of Christian I've often found post-modernism rather attractive and quite helpful. I dare say it also appeals to someone with my magpie type mind as well. I've also found it a useful way of coping, philosophically at least, with surfeits of religious guilt. That probably needs some unpacking but I'm not sure I'm able to do that at this time of night. I suppose post-modernity at its most extreme would be to say that nothing anymore has any meaning - neither humanism nor religion nor morality, perhaps not even post modernity itself.
I think my version of post modernity is about trying to hold disparate bits and pieces of life together in some way which does make sense and give meaning. Somewhere I suspect that the meaning I seek involves radical inclusivity and acceptance but also clear denunciation of injustice. Within that search prayer and reading the Bible have been and remain very important to me - oh no I might actually be a traditionalist at heart!
You will have noticed from these musings that I'm not very good at philosophy. Years ago I invited a young theology student back to my flat for Sunday lunch and wowed him with my erudition about Walter Benjamin and German philosophy - I'd just read a book on the subject by my German tutor (who I of course fancied and hoped to entice with my knowledge!) - 24 years later Stephen is still waiting for a continuation of that particular conversation and has had to sit through many a boring and not doubt trite sermon in the process. Ah the seduction of philosophy...
Perhaps there is hope in the shrinking and sometimes frightening world that we will find a way forwards that allows both for strong self-definition and for equally strong true understanding and openness to others. Maybe that is part of what ecumenism is about.
Returning home
It's always hard coming back from a meeting to know quite how to speak about it, hard for me too not to blog about it with quite such intensity now - but as I need to ween myself off blogging gently I shall go on putting posts up until about the end of the month - but not in as much detail as before - I had quite a bit of work waiting for my attention when I returned!
Trying to find a way to embed our experience at meetings like the one in Toulouse into our lives is quite a challenge. It's really easy to come away on a sort of high after all the discussions but not really be changed or challenged in any way. That's perhaps always the issue of trying to share experience too.
Anyway the best thing about getting home is definitely sleeping in my own bed and getting served proper tea - made with boiling water and tea leaves - before getting up. It's true that I hold a special place of disdain for calling something tea when what it actually is is a cup of tepid water with a bag of what the French call "lipton yellow" hanging in it. A nation of gastronomes they may be, tea makers they are not. Blessed are the tea makers, thanks for the morning cuppa Stephen.
Trying to find a way to embed our experience at meetings like the one in Toulouse into our lives is quite a challenge. It's really easy to come away on a sort of high after all the discussions but not really be changed or challenged in any way. That's perhaps always the issue of trying to share experience too.
Anyway the best thing about getting home is definitely sleeping in my own bed and getting served proper tea - made with boiling water and tea leaves - before getting up. It's true that I hold a special place of disdain for calling something tea when what it actually is is a cup of tepid water with a bag of what the French call "lipton yellow" hanging in it. A nation of gastronomes they may be, tea makers they are not. Blessed are the tea makers, thanks for the morning cuppa Stephen.
WCC release on the Toulouse meeting
The WCC has now posted a release about the Toulouse meeting (translations into German, French and Spanish will follow soon).A free high-resolution picture from the consultation is also available.
Some of the participants at the Toulouse consultation (from left to right): Bishop Geevarghese Mor Coorilos (Orthodox, India), Rev. Dr Thomas Schirrmacher (Evangelical, Germany), Rev. Dr Hermen Shastri (Protestant, Malaysia), Rev. Dr Tony Richie (Pentecostal, USA), Mgr. Augustine Shao (Roman Catholic, Zanzibar), Mgr. Robert Le Gall (Roman Catholic, France). © Juan Michel / WCC
Tuesday, 14 August 2007
More links
La Croix - the French daily newspaper - has published an article about the « code de conduite de la conversion ». The participants were interviewed by passing a mobile phone around the dinner table.
And the Ecumenical and Interfaith Network of the Presbyterian Church USA has this page about the project for a shared code of conduct on religious conversion with background information, history of the project and useful links and case studies. Pity I didn't know about it before I arrived.
Well, I'm back in Ferney Voltaire now, just next to Geneva, and that's all for today!
And the Ecumenical and Interfaith Network of the Presbyterian Church USA has this page about the project for a shared code of conduct on religious conversion with background information, history of the project and useful links and case studies. Pity I didn't know about it before I arrived.
Well, I'm back in Ferney Voltaire now, just next to Geneva, and that's all for today!
and a final link to more discussion
any website that's called episcopal café can't be all bad
http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/evangelism/evangelising_ethically.html
Now I must catch that train
http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/evangelism/evangelising_ethically.html
Now I must catch that train
Religious plurality and Christian self-understanding
The second 24 hour meeting which followed the much larger meeting on conversion was a brainstorming and ideas session about a study process on religious plurality and Christian self understanding. The first part of the process resulted in a study paper which generated very diverse reactions from extremely positive to extremely negative. You can find the paper in various languages on the WCC website. It should be there in various languages and as a pdf.
The paper uses the concept of hospitality as a way into the problem based on a verse from the letter to the Hebrews "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it." Heb 13.2 - angels here meaning messangers, people who may have something to tell you. I was once again interested that language issues around the word hospitality arose - both for theological and ecumenical reasons, because of our vocabulary and studies on eucharistic hospitality - but also because hsopitality is understood rather differently in various cultures - Hermen Shastri particularly mentioned this as a problem in Malay for instance. But I realised that if you translate the word for host back into French (from whence it first came into English) you get hôte which can mean either host or guest depending on the context - there's probably a theological metaphor there if I thought a bit longer about it. Gast has similar over and undertones in German. Oddly English has taken its word for guest from old German and it's word for host from French - as the French were the gentry there are probably good contextual and cultural reasons for that.
However I am as always concerned that by using English as our lingua franca we do not always help our understanding of one another, or appreciate the complexities of issues or contexts.
Although I'm convinced that it will only be through daring to deal with controversial issues that ecumenism will attract interest, I also really understand how difficult it is to quite know where to go next with a paper that generates such opposing reactions, particularly as the WCC has recently moved to a consensus decision-making model. I wonder whether a paper more or less useful if it has gone through all the decision-making processes. Perhaps I also need to think a bit more about what place there is within consensus ecumenism for controversial ecumenism - after all controversy can be both positive - generating interest and reflection for instance - and also negative - just see some of the current problems of the Anglican communion. Perhaps we need a careful controversial ecumenism within consensus...
Anyway leaving alliteration to one side, I shall be posting some more thoughts following on from both of these meetings over the next week or so. I must also remember to stop blogging and go and catch my train at some point!
The paper uses the concept of hospitality as a way into the problem based on a verse from the letter to the Hebrews "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it." Heb 13.2 - angels here meaning messangers, people who may have something to tell you. I was once again interested that language issues around the word hospitality arose - both for theological and ecumenical reasons, because of our vocabulary and studies on eucharistic hospitality - but also because hsopitality is understood rather differently in various cultures - Hermen Shastri particularly mentioned this as a problem in Malay for instance. But I realised that if you translate the word for host back into French (from whence it first came into English) you get hôte which can mean either host or guest depending on the context - there's probably a theological metaphor there if I thought a bit longer about it. Gast has similar over and undertones in German. Oddly English has taken its word for guest from old German and it's word for host from French - as the French were the gentry there are probably good contextual and cultural reasons for that.
However I am as always concerned that by using English as our lingua franca we do not always help our understanding of one another, or appreciate the complexities of issues or contexts.
Although I'm convinced that it will only be through daring to deal with controversial issues that ecumenism will attract interest, I also really understand how difficult it is to quite know where to go next with a paper that generates such opposing reactions, particularly as the WCC has recently moved to a consensus decision-making model. I wonder whether a paper more or less useful if it has gone through all the decision-making processes. Perhaps I also need to think a bit more about what place there is within consensus ecumenism for controversial ecumenism - after all controversy can be both positive - generating interest and reflection for instance - and also negative - just see some of the current problems of the Anglican communion. Perhaps we need a careful controversial ecumenism within consensus...
Anyway leaving alliteration to one side, I shall be posting some more thoughts following on from both of these meetings over the next week or so. I must also remember to stop blogging and go and catch my train at some point!
How to post a comment
As some of you are even more blog challenged than me this is just a quick tip on how to post a comment.
At the end of each post is a line that says comment - usually preceded by a number, a zero most likely. click with your mouse on one of the comment links and write what you want in the box and then post or send your comment. It won't appear immediately on the blog because it gets sent to me at one of my email addresses and I get to read it first and decide if it goes on. Don't worry unless you are completely outrageous I am unlikely to stop your post.
At the end of each post is a line that says comment - usually preceded by a number, a zero most likely. click with your mouse on one of the comment links and write what you want in the box and then post or send your comment. It won't appear immediately on the blog because it gets sent to me at one of my email addresses and I get to read it first and decide if it goes on. Don't worry unless you are completely outrageous I am unlikely to stop your post.
Learning to be a Bishop
Meeting him again on the first day of our meeting I didn't at first recognise Bishop George Matthew - or to be more precise Bishop Geervarghese Mor Coorilis. He had not yet been ordained bishop when I last met him at the CWME meeting in Athens, amazing how wearing a different "uniform" changes how we respond to people. I couldn't at first see beyond the outer picture and so assumed this was not someone I knew - I should add that I am very bad both at remembering faces and remembering names so that doesn't help!
Bishop George comes from the Syrian Orthodox Church in Kerala, he admitted to all of us that he is still "learning to be a Bishop". Later he admitted to me that it's difficult to live up to people's expectations of him - should he drive a car or be driven by a chauffeur; what will people think if he goes out and drinks tea in the local café? Listening to him I was very humbled. We Protestants speak of vocation and yet for many of us in the west at least this kind of giving up of personal freedom in order to serve the church and the gospel is not part of our schema in the same way. In interviewing candidates for ministry in my church we would even insist on some kind of balance between public ministry and private, personal life.
In some ways Bishop George and other bishops in his church are I suppose some kind of living icon amongst the people, an icon both of the church and of the presence of Christ.
Bishop George led us in a very moving morning meditation on the second day of the meeting here, charting from his own experience the changing attitude within his church to the conversion of Dalits and to supporting the rights of Dalits - I've already packed my notes away so I won't say too much more about that for the time being. I do however very much hope that we continue to welcome him to the table of our ecumenical meetings. His calm and gentle support and encouragement to the cause of Dalits within his church and beyond it, his vocation to being both amongst his people and and an advocate within the world church, make him a very incisive voice from the South. It was a privilege to listen to him.
P.S. Travelling back on the train I saw this article in the Guardian about how a Dalit family exists on the flipside of the Indian economic miracle.
Don't do dialogue, play football!
One of the great things about meetings of these kinds is the stories people share - normally just before everyone is about to settle back down into the meeting after a coffee break.
Hans Ucko told us that at the end of an interreligious meeting the WCC had been hosting in Hong Kong - one of two participants from Egypt (who both had identical names) who was a secular Muslim, said "don't do dialogue, play football!"
Alan Race then jumped in and said that in Leicester UK they had done exactly that - a Christian clergy against Muslim Imams game was held. The Imams won 6 - 0. However they then set up a Leiceseter inter-faith football team which played against another inter-faith team from another town and then Leicester won.
Can't remember anymore whether a Protestant team or a Catholic team won the championship at the ecumenical kirchentag in Berlin in 2003 but as we prepare for the next ecumenical Kirchentag in Munich in 2010 maybe we need to set up an international ecumenical team and see how they do. I'm sure my colleague Simon Oxley could come up with a suitably ecumenically phrased programme description for this in terms of ecumenical education and team building, - he's probably the only person in the world to have season tickets for Manchester City and Servette football teams, a sure sign that whatever else he still hopes for miracles.
Hans Ucko told us that at the end of an interreligious meeting the WCC had been hosting in Hong Kong - one of two participants from Egypt (who both had identical names) who was a secular Muslim, said "don't do dialogue, play football!"
Alan Race then jumped in and said that in Leicester UK they had done exactly that - a Christian clergy against Muslim Imams game was held. The Imams won 6 - 0. However they then set up a Leiceseter inter-faith football team which played against another inter-faith team from another town and then Leicester won.
Can't remember anymore whether a Protestant team or a Catholic team won the championship at the ecumenical kirchentag in Berlin in 2003 but as we prepare for the next ecumenical Kirchentag in Munich in 2010 maybe we need to set up an international ecumenical team and see how they do. I'm sure my colleague Simon Oxley could come up with a suitably ecumenically phrased programme description for this in terms of ecumenical education and team building, - he's probably the only person in the world to have season tickets for Manchester City and Servette football teams, a sure sign that whatever else he still hopes for miracles.
Of visas, anger, commitment and questions
This is just the beginning of a post and it will probably change in the morning - doubt if anyone will read it in the meantime actually.Today, Monday, we have had an all day meeting following up on the process of a discussion paper on Christian self-understanding and religious pluralism, prepared and published shortly before the CWME Athens meeting in 2005. Several people from the previous meeting stayed on for this 24 hour brainstorming meeting - about which more tomorrow - three people flew in specially and I think that's what got me thinking about visas and anger and commitment. The three who gave of their most precious resource, time, were all Europeans - though one flew in specially from the States and it was especially useful that he was here.
Fortunately some from the previous meeting from the global south were abe to stay on which did help a litle with some kind of balance. This set me off on a train of thought which made me angry - it had to do with visas etc.
I am continually amazed at how people are willing to give freely of their time and energy to the WCC. Of course because our headquarters are in Geneva it will always be easiest for Europeans to make that commitment in terms of time - and cheaper too for the WCC to pay for them to attend things. Mention was made during our meeting of the enormous amount of time the administrator here at the Institut had to put in to getting together all the paperwork to get visas for people attending from Nepal, Myanmar, Malaysia, India etc. and that was for the most part for Roman Catholic bishops who were certain to return home afterwards.
This whole problem was impressed upon me when I met an Anglican bishop from Uganda at one of the preparatory meetings for the WCC's assembly in Brazil. He had to travel to a neighbouring country to get his visa for Brazil and that in itself took more than three days - and interestingly he didn't complain about this like some of we westerners do when we occasionally have to go to Bern to get visas. He had just taken his computer with him and worked while waiting at the embassy. It is moving to see this kind of commitment to the world wide fellowship of churches, yet I wonder whether those of us who have more freedom to travel actually recognize this effort and sacrifice in the way we then run our various meetings - what I mean by that is do we really allow enough space for voices from the South or more than that, really for the Southern agenda to actually be laid out. I'm still not sure. But I do know that being an Anglican bishop is not easy anywhere at the moment and being a bishop in Uganda most surely not. I often think of his contribution to the WCC's work when I am feeling frazzled and over-worked, it helps put thinkg in perspective.
Not really sure I've ended up where I intended when I began this post last night but i think this will have to do for now.
Except I think I shall post a photo with the blog which is the sign for a cafe here in Toulouse it says on it "La part des Anges" which literally translated means the angels' portion - I think in colloquial English we would say the lion's share. Let's be clear it's westerners who for the most part have the lion's share of representation in our meetings and often also in the setting of the agenda. Giving freely of time is the life blood of the church and of civil society throughout the world, the ecumenical movement could not exist without that. But before our meetings even begin our sisters and brothers from the South will often already have done the lion's share of the giving of time. An invitation to reflect on being angelic in a rather different way.
Monday, 13 August 2007
In hommage to the flip chart and white board
Now everyone knows you can't have an ecumenical meeting without a supply of marker pens and something to write on. (Can't resist another translation aside sorry, the translation of flip chart into French is "le paperboard"!!) This is not because we want to emulate the monks of old and copy things out long hand but it's a telling sign that words and papers are not always enough, sometimes we need to be able to express things rather differently - even if it is as here, just in listing themes for group work.
However I'm really writing this post because I do sometimes think that we need to put as much effort into thinking about the methodology of our meetings as we do into writing the papers we give. This is a general point after 5 years at the WCC and not a criticism of the present meetings. And I speak as someone who really likes listening to a well written academic paper being given - sad aren't I! Paulo Freire tried to teach us years ago that pedagogy and theology need to be intimately linked. Sometimes I think none of our churches have really understood this would improve their communication with one another and with the wider world. Sorry, late night rant over.
Anyway at the meeting on conversion the groups did meet but we didn't have quite enough time on the final morning for refining the reports and there will now need to be quite a lot of post-meeting redrafting and editing before we can move forwards with the weaving of the code of conduct.
Weaving on the way to a code on conversion
Four people gave papers at the beginning of our meeting - towards a code of conduct on conversion. Of course all of this is a bit more than tentative and not yet anything official, but the papers really helped to move things forwards, raise theological, political and cultural isues and also give particpants hope that there was a really good possibility of a way forwards to agreement on this subject in each of our various churches or traditions.
Because of resolving problems with batteries in some of the interpretation equipment I was unfortunately not abe to listen to all of the contributions, though each provided us with copies of their papers.
Hans Ucko had the task of linking this consulation to the previous one in Lariano and embedding us in the process of now looking specifically at conversion from a Christian perspective. The previous consultation had taken place together with people of other faiths. He emphasized that any code of conduct we come up will only have "no other weight or authority than the impact it may have in the hearts and minds of people who read and study it". He went on to express possible hopes about what such a code might include and concludede by expressing the particular hope that we would "be able to address the issue carefully, learning from each other and with respect for each other."
Thomas Shirrmacher who works, among many things, on the religious liberty commission of the World Evangelical Alliance entitled his paper "But with gentleness and respect" - why missions should be ruled by ethics.
He took as his biblical starting point the text from 1 Peter 3.15-17 "In your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defence to anyone who demands from you an account of the hope that is in you; 16yet do it with gentleness and reverence. Keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who abuse you for your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. 17For it is better to suffer for doing good, if suffering should be God’s will, than to suffer for doing evil."
He argued in favour of looking at those issues which we could definitely agree on in order to come to a common code - for example agreement that violence in pursuit of conversion was completely unacceptable. He ranged widely over the ethical areas, quoting from both Vatican II documents and WCC statements ending "It will not be easy to nail down those unethical means to a conrete code of conduct, especially as historical, religious, cultural and political conditions are so different."
Tony Richie's paper particularly interested me because I felt even just the title helped to move the discussion forwards - A threefold cord: weaving together Pentecostal ecumenism, ethics and evangelism in Christian conversion. He used as his starting and finishing point a quote from Ecclesiastes "A cord of three strands is not quickly broken." (Eccl. 4.12b) He used his threefold approach both to examine his own denomination's approach to conversion and also to critique some of the work done at Lariano, where the first consulation on this issue took place. He ended saying that "interlocking concerns of ecumenism, ethics and evangelism indicate that each ought to be grounded in and guided by the others in faithfulness to their own unique goals. In short ecumenism ought to be ethical and evangelistic as well; ethics ought also to be ecumenical and evangelistic; and evangelism ought to be ecumenical and ethical."
Listening to him I felt his paper really had what the French call "souffle" - as he's a Pentecostal this is not surprising - souffle means breath, a soufflé is something that has air in it. In this context I suppose "souffle" could be translated both a paper with spirit or inspiration - I think I might even add a capital to that - a Spirited paper.
Father Fio Mascarenhas from India based much of his paper on a close analysis of the late Pope John Paul II's letter to the Church in Asia Ecclesia in Asia (Nov 6 1999) particularly stressing the emphasis the Pope put on taking the situation of the listener (to the Gospel) to heart so as to offer a proclamation adapted to the listener's level of maturity (E in A 20). Also looking at aspects where Eccleisia in Asia emphasises the importance of the biblical word , of inculturation and of religious dialogue. He ended his paper with 6 points which he hoped all present at the meeting would be able to agree on, ending ... that "We evangelise in a holistic way and not proselytize, that is we commit oursleves to make efforts to foster interreligious dialoge and religious harmony in the local areas of our operation and cooperate wholehaertedly in human welfare projects for the uplift of all people in that neighbourhood."
I am of course not terribly used to making such detailed studies of Vatican documents (though I live with someone who is!) and it was a little frightening to try and find the quotes in French from the Vatican's website. Downloading it onto the computer helped a little but ecclesia in Asia is over 50 pages long so it wasn't exactly straightforward!
When listening to and meeting with many of the Catholic participants at the meeting I was powerfully reminded of the extraordinary diversity within that one Church.
The weaving we will all need to do in order to arrive at a code of conduct on conversion will have to be both intricate, creative and firm if it is to have any meaning.
(She's preaching again - ed)
Because of resolving problems with batteries in some of the interpretation equipment I was unfortunately not abe to listen to all of the contributions, though each provided us with copies of their papers.
Hans Ucko had the task of linking this consulation to the previous one in Lariano and embedding us in the process of now looking specifically at conversion from a Christian perspective. The previous consultation had taken place together with people of other faiths. He emphasized that any code of conduct we come up will only have "no other weight or authority than the impact it may have in the hearts and minds of people who read and study it". He went on to express possible hopes about what such a code might include and concludede by expressing the particular hope that we would "be able to address the issue carefully, learning from each other and with respect for each other."
Thomas Shirrmacher who works, among many things, on the religious liberty commission of the World Evangelical Alliance entitled his paper "But with gentleness and respect" - why missions should be ruled by ethics.
He took as his biblical starting point the text from 1 Peter 3.15-17 "In your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defence to anyone who demands from you an account of the hope that is in you; 16yet do it with gentleness and reverence. Keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who abuse you for your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. 17For it is better to suffer for doing good, if suffering should be God’s will, than to suffer for doing evil."
He argued in favour of looking at those issues which we could definitely agree on in order to come to a common code - for example agreement that violence in pursuit of conversion was completely unacceptable. He ranged widely over the ethical areas, quoting from both Vatican II documents and WCC statements ending "It will not be easy to nail down those unethical means to a conrete code of conduct, especially as historical, religious, cultural and political conditions are so different."
Tony Richie's paper particularly interested me because I felt even just the title helped to move the discussion forwards - A threefold cord: weaving together Pentecostal ecumenism, ethics and evangelism in Christian conversion. He used as his starting and finishing point a quote from Ecclesiastes "A cord of three strands is not quickly broken." (Eccl. 4.12b) He used his threefold approach both to examine his own denomination's approach to conversion and also to critique some of the work done at Lariano, where the first consulation on this issue took place. He ended saying that "interlocking concerns of ecumenism, ethics and evangelism indicate that each ought to be grounded in and guided by the others in faithfulness to their own unique goals. In short ecumenism ought to be ethical and evangelistic as well; ethics ought also to be ecumenical and evangelistic; and evangelism ought to be ecumenical and ethical."
Listening to him I felt his paper really had what the French call "souffle" - as he's a Pentecostal this is not surprising - souffle means breath, a soufflé is something that has air in it. In this context I suppose "souffle" could be translated both a paper with spirit or inspiration - I think I might even add a capital to that - a Spirited paper.
Father Fio Mascarenhas from India based much of his paper on a close analysis of the late Pope John Paul II's letter to the Church in Asia Ecclesia in Asia (Nov 6 1999) particularly stressing the emphasis the Pope put on taking the situation of the listener (to the Gospel) to heart so as to offer a proclamation adapted to the listener's level of maturity (E in A 20). Also looking at aspects where Eccleisia in Asia emphasises the importance of the biblical word , of inculturation and of religious dialogue. He ended his paper with 6 points which he hoped all present at the meeting would be able to agree on, ending ... that "We evangelise in a holistic way and not proselytize, that is we commit oursleves to make efforts to foster interreligious dialoge and religious harmony in the local areas of our operation and cooperate wholehaertedly in human welfare projects for the uplift of all people in that neighbourhood."
I am of course not terribly used to making such detailed studies of Vatican documents (though I live with someone who is!) and it was a little frightening to try and find the quotes in French from the Vatican's website. Downloading it onto the computer helped a little but ecclesia in Asia is over 50 pages long so it wasn't exactly straightforward!
When listening to and meeting with many of the Catholic participants at the meeting I was powerfully reminded of the extraordinary diversity within that one Church.
The weaving we will all need to do in order to arrive at a code of conduct on conversion will have to be both intricate, creative and firm if it is to have any meaning.
(She's preaching again - ed)
Voltaire and Toulouse
You can see from the attached (not very good) photo that on our way to more earthly pleasures last night we also had time for a bit of cultural reflection, coming across the place in Toulouse where Jean Calas lived. His story is a link between the place I live, Ferney-Voltaire, and Toulouse. In 1762 he was executed for the murder of his son - it was claimed that he strangled his son because his son was intending to convert from Protestantism to Catholicism. At his execution he continued to protest his innocence.
Voltaire took up the case and as a result of it published his treatise on tolerance. This very discreet plaque, 3 metres up a wall in one of the streets here links together many of the things we have been talking about - conversion, religious /state violence and tolerance.
Last week, for the first time in the 14 years I've been living there I went on a guided tour around the small town I live in. It was good - and they do them in both English and French. It was fun for myself and Theo, another colleague who often gives tours of the Ecumenical Centre in Geneva, to actually be on the receiving end of someone else's wisdom. I've also been reading Ian Davidson' book Voltaire in Exile which particularly deals with the Calas affair, you can get a sneak preview of it be going to the link below. http://books.google.com/books?id=08ps0RPkmM8C&dq=voltaire+in+exile&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=ZuSLtymraQ&sig=hUgaPewg4vh6am5lblPGi8wWEyk#PPP1,M1
There's also more about Voltaire in both French and English at the folowing two links.
InFrench
http://www.site-magister.com/afcal.htm
InEnglish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Calas
So others are blogging about our meeting too
and about other things too of course
hhttp://blogsearch.google.com
and of course for those of you who are complete news junkies (like the man I live with!) here's the link for the Washington post article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com
I will try to edit the blog a bit later but it's alittle dififcult in the coffee breaks.
food, free time and frivolities
I promise later today and tomorrow once the meetings finish to go in a bit more detail of some of the discussions. Tony Richie's paper on Ecumenism, ethics and evangelism interested me especially and I'll do my best to give you all an idea of what's been going on on both in the meting on conversion and in the meeting we are now in on Christian self-understanding and religious plurality.
However, it seems some of you think I may have been working too hard while here, so let me be clear that another reason I've blogged less these last two days had been because our coffee break discsussions have become more interesting and animated - as has our late night beer drinking, including long discussions about feminist theology with a self-confessed conservative Roman Catholic. I should add that we neither of us managed to convert the other to our point of view; at the end of our discssion he admitted to reflecting that it was interesting how much more in common we had than he had supposed - and I reflected that it was clear that we were both pretty clear about our respective identities! Did we learn anything from each other, I hope so. Also help, arbitration and support in the discussion came from a (to me) rather unexpected quarter, that of an Orthodox particpant at the meeting. Just goes to show we should never assume we know what other people think or believe, which is why dialogue, debate, discussion... and drinking beer are so important.
On air - listen again
So Hans Ucko, who's in charge of inter-religious dialogue at the WCC, left today's meeting just before the coffee break for another radio interview, this time in French for the Swiss radio but you can also listen to him in English at the following link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12721952&ft=1&f=1016
And of course his multilingualism is a great asset in responding to all these press requests - not that I'm trying to force the language issue I'm just a bit passionate about my job, that's good isn't it?
Interpreting
Over the past two days I've been interpreting without much respite. On Friday I worked into German almost non-stop - this was not planned for, and I also would not claim to be particularly good at it - but one of the Roman Catholics from Austria had real problems following in the group work without this.
Handing out the interpretation earphones on the first day I was interested that many of the anglophones said oh no I won't need interpretation - so I made sure I said - if someone speaks in French will you need interpretation into English, that way we prevented interruptions if someone spoke French of people suddenly discovering they needed to understand. When the Austrians moved into German I interpreted into English and my colleagues whispered into French. With Arabic several colleagues interpreted consecutively into English - our clients for French had excellent Arabic so we didn't need to go intot French for them.
When Pope Benedict spoke in Regensburg last year, he gave his lecture in German, it wasn't until it was translated into English that it started to create waves.
Of course it's easier and cheaper for everyone if a meeting takes place in one language, but I wonder quite what we are doing when we insist on that, whose experience is not being heard, what assumptions do we make if we don't listen to people who may speak four or five languages but not English? If you really want your material to have an impact at the grassroots or even in discussion form somewhere it will need at some stage to be produced in other lanaguages.
Also language affects the way you think and express yourself - what do we not get if we do everything in English all the time? In terms of the meeting it was also very clear that translation and conversion have close links.
Anyway the reason there have been fewer posts these past few days is that non-stop interpreting is both time consuming and very tiring. I slept for hours yesterday afternoon. I'm also reading a new book by John le Carré called the Mission Song all about an interpreter with French, English, Swahili and a whole host of African languages. I've just got to part of the book where he's being told to pretend he doesn't understand all those other languages. the character makes the point that it's always easier to pretend you understand than to pretend you don't understand - hmm that's quite a theological point.
Handing out the interpretation earphones on the first day I was interested that many of the anglophones said oh no I won't need interpretation - so I made sure I said - if someone speaks in French will you need interpretation into English, that way we prevented interruptions if someone spoke French of people suddenly discovering they needed to understand. When the Austrians moved into German I interpreted into English and my colleagues whispered into French. With Arabic several colleagues interpreted consecutively into English - our clients for French had excellent Arabic so we didn't need to go intot French for them.
When Pope Benedict spoke in Regensburg last year, he gave his lecture in German, it wasn't until it was translated into English that it started to create waves.
Of course it's easier and cheaper for everyone if a meeting takes place in one language, but I wonder quite what we are doing when we insist on that, whose experience is not being heard, what assumptions do we make if we don't listen to people who may speak four or five languages but not English? If you really want your material to have an impact at the grassroots or even in discussion form somewhere it will need at some stage to be produced in other lanaguages.
Also language affects the way you think and express yourself - what do we not get if we do everything in English all the time? In terms of the meeting it was also very clear that translation and conversion have close links.
Anyway the reason there have been fewer posts these past few days is that non-stop interpreting is both time consuming and very tiring. I slept for hours yesterday afternoon. I'm also reading a new book by John le Carré called the Mission Song all about an interpreter with French, English, Swahili and a whole host of African languages. I've just got to part of the book where he's being told to pretend he doesn't understand all those other languages. the character makes the point that it's always easier to pretend you understand than to pretend you don't understand - hmm that's quite a theological point.
Problems with Reuters
My colleague Juan, the WCC's media relations officer, had a busy few
days down here, busy and sometimes difficult because of a Reuters story on our meeting in Toulouse which has made itself into the Washington Post.
Depending how you read it might look as if the WCC thinks that Pentecostal
or evangelical churches are sects, though the piece doesn't put these
words in Juan's mouth, and the WCC does not use such language.
However for the individuals from the Pentecostal and evangelical
churches who have come to this meeting it means they may have problems with some people from their own communities who are unsure about working together with other
churches on such issues - it actually means they are already getting long
emails on the subject.
And looking up "sect" in the dictionary shows just what a range of
meanings the word has - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sect .
For me this shows how difficult it is for us to communicate about what
churches are doing alot of the time. Of course communication is always a risk, but may
be an even greater risk is to not dare to communicate at all.
The good news is that there has been a really high level of interest. Yesterday at lunch time a mobile phone was being handed between about five participants as a journalist from the French Catholic daily La Croix interviewed them.
One of the things I'm interested in is reflecting on language and communication. If information is not in English it is almost as if it never happened in the international community, yet for local consumption the local language is also essential and in order toget information, news communicaiton out there beyond a few internationally minded folk it has to go out in many languages - if that weren't important we wouldn't have translated the Bible into so many lanaguges.
days down here, busy and sometimes difficult because of a Reuters story on our meeting in Toulouse which has made itself into the Washington Post.
Depending how you read it might look as if the WCC thinks that Pentecostal
or evangelical churches are sects, though the piece doesn't put these
words in Juan's mouth, and the WCC does not use such language.
However for the individuals from the Pentecostal and evangelical
churches who have come to this meeting it means they may have problems with some people from their own communities who are unsure about working together with other
churches on such issues - it actually means they are already getting long
emails on the subject.
And looking up "sect" in the dictionary shows just what a range of
meanings the word has - http://dictionary.reference
For me this shows how difficult it is for us to communicate about what
churches are doing alot of the time. Of course communication is always a risk, but may
be an even greater risk is to not dare to communicate at all.
The good news is that there has been a really high level of interest. Yesterday at lunch time a mobile phone was being handed between about five participants as a journalist from the French Catholic daily La Croix interviewed them.
One of the things I'm interested in is reflecting on language and communication. If information is not in English it is almost as if it never happened in the international community, yet for local consumption the local language is also essential and in order toget information, news communicaiton out there beyond a few internationally minded folk it has to go out in many languages - if that weren't important we wouldn't have translated the Bible into so many lanaguges.
Saturday, 11 August 2007
commemorative plaque to Cardinal Lustiger
A commemorative plate is to be installed in the cathedral on which
the following message of Jean-Marie Lustiger will be inscribed:
I was born Jewish.
I received the name
Of my paternal grandfather, Aaron
Having become Christian
By faith and by Baptism,
I have remained Jewish
As did the Apostles.
I have as my patron saints
Aaron the High Priest,
Saint John the Apostle,
Holy Mary full of grace.
Named 139th archbishop of Paris
by His Holiness Pope John-Paul II,
I was enthroned in this Cathedral
on 27 February 1981,
And here I exercised my entire ministry.
Passers by, pray for me.
† Aaron Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger
Archevêque de Paris
the following message of Jean-Marie Lustiger will be inscribed:
I was born Jewish.
I received the name
Of my paternal grandfather, Aaron
Having become Christian
By faith and by Baptism,
I have remained Jewish
As did the Apostles.
I have as my patron saints
Aaron the High Priest,
Saint John the Apostle,
Holy Mary full of grace.
Named 139th archbishop of Paris
by His Holiness Pope John-Paul II,
I was enthroned in this Cathedral
on 27 February 1981,
And here I exercised my entire ministry.
Passers by, pray for me.
† Aaron Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger
Archevêque de Paris
just some links
Well below are just some links about the meeting here in Toulouse - and yes I do know they are not in English but I think a little bit of linguistic diversity will do us all good!
Will try to add some photos later on today too.
Am really enjoying learning about all this blogging business.
http://www.idea.de/index.php?id=355&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=56384&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=18&cHash=6d02dd2fab
http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/ted/Articolo.asp?c=148431
http://www.alcnoticias.org/articulo.asp?artCode=6475&lanCode=2
and this one is about the cathars
http://www.historia.presse.fr/data/thematique/108/10800801.html
Will try to add some photos later on today too.
Am really enjoying learning about all this blogging business.
http://www.idea.de/index.php
http://www.oecumene.radiovatic
http://www.alcnoticias.org
and this one is about the cathars
http://www.historia.presse.fr
Of sinfulness ... and book buying
One of the things that would probably need some theological work as an ethical code of conversion is worked on is how Christians from different churches, and from different persuasions within those different churches, see sin.
Many western Europeans live together rather than marrying - are they more sinful, less sinful or just differently sinful from a person who is using a computer to steal money say from pension funds, or someone eating too much, or someone taking the car to the shops when tehy could walk?
I had an interesting exchange about sin with two colleagues recently- one Orthodox one Lutheran. The Lutheran felt that original sin was really where it's at, the Orthodox colleague said he didn't believe in original sin. Sin for him was more about missing the target, missing the goal - which is the meaning of the Greek word which we translate as sin.
When I see how hedonistic parts of our very rich cultures in the West are becoming I suppose part of me does think perhaps some of this behaviour would change if people had a sense of certain things being wrong. Then I suppose it's always easier to identify other people's behaviour as hedonistic rather than look a little more clearly at my own champagne drinking life style. Our very judgement of others as sinful can be sinful.
One of the things that is interesting at meetings like this is that trying to live together, share the workload of the meeting, deal with different debating styles and cultures and lots of practicalities like phone calls, dietary needs and travel plans, can also produce tensions. We are trying to reach consensus about a code of conduct, yet we all tend to gravitate to those people we feel most at home with - it's amazing how quickly that happens.
One of the good things about the refectory style dining tables is that you're always likely to be sitting fairly close to people you haven't chosen to be near - and who didn't choose to be next to you either. But there really can be a grace in the unexpected mealtime conversations with people we didn't think we would get on with, and if we cannot yet all participate together in the Eucharistic meal then we should try to make the most of the table fellowship that is on offer. After all the amazing thing about the heavenly banquet is that each and all of us receive an invitation from God - but we're not told who we will be sitting next to!
On my wanderings around Toulouse yesterday afternoon I came across a wonderful bookshop called ombres blanches - white or pale shadows I suppose. The internal architecture is a bit chaotic, it has a lovely old sofa in a tea room are in the middle and of course the most amazing selection of books. I only bought eight... well it's not so easy in France to find bookshops with a good selection of books in English. The thing about buying books this way is that I always end up with something I probably wouldn't buy if I were at home. Yesterday this was an edition of Thomas Hardy's short stories edited by Susan Hill - it's called the Distracted Preacher and Other Tales. I really couldn't leave that on the shelves to be bought by a less deserving recipient than myself! Now here's a question - is buying books sinful? Better wait for the credit card statement before answering that! The bad news is I think I know how to find my way back there...
Many western Europeans live together rather than marrying - are they more sinful, less sinful or just differently sinful from a person who is using a computer to steal money say from pension funds, or someone eating too much, or someone taking the car to the shops when tehy could walk?
I had an interesting exchange about sin with two colleagues recently- one Orthodox one Lutheran. The Lutheran felt that original sin was really where it's at, the Orthodox colleague said he didn't believe in original sin. Sin for him was more about missing the target, missing the goal - which is the meaning of the Greek word which we translate as sin.
When I see how hedonistic parts of our very rich cultures in the West are becoming I suppose part of me does think perhaps some of this behaviour would change if people had a sense of certain things being wrong. Then I suppose it's always easier to identify other people's behaviour as hedonistic rather than look a little more clearly at my own champagne drinking life style. Our very judgement of others as sinful can be sinful.
One of the things that is interesting at meetings like this is that trying to live together, share the workload of the meeting, deal with different debating styles and cultures and lots of practicalities like phone calls, dietary needs and travel plans, can also produce tensions. We are trying to reach consensus about a code of conduct, yet we all tend to gravitate to those people we feel most at home with - it's amazing how quickly that happens.
One of the good things about the refectory style dining tables is that you're always likely to be sitting fairly close to people you haven't chosen to be near - and who didn't choose to be next to you either. But there really can be a grace in the unexpected mealtime conversations with people we didn't think we would get on with, and if we cannot yet all participate together in the Eucharistic meal then we should try to make the most of the table fellowship that is on offer. After all the amazing thing about the heavenly banquet is that each and all of us receive an invitation from God - but we're not told who we will be sitting next to!
On my wanderings around Toulouse yesterday afternoon I came across a wonderful bookshop called ombres blanches - white or pale shadows I suppose. The internal architecture is a bit chaotic, it has a lovely old sofa in a tea room are in the middle and of course the most amazing selection of books. I only bought eight... well it's not so easy in France to find bookshops with a good selection of books in English. The thing about buying books this way is that I always end up with something I probably wouldn't buy if I were at home. Yesterday this was an edition of Thomas Hardy's short stories edited by Susan Hill - it's called the Distracted Preacher and Other Tales. I really couldn't leave that on the shelves to be bought by a less deserving recipient than myself! Now here's a question - is buying books sinful? Better wait for the credit card statement before answering that! The bad news is I think I know how to find my way back there...
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